[zang]

I never thought I would be one to say this but; they need to increase fares. Olivia Chow cant keep this fare freeze going on like this, it's been almost 3 years with no additional revenue tools for the TTC.

It doesn't help that the TTC has probably been relying on fares from increased ridership that Line 5 will being that always seem like they're within reach and then poof! pushed back. For a half decade now.

That and the province needs to get their heads out of the gutter and increase provincial funding levels. It's cute that Doug Ford wants to keep cutting municipality revenue tools, but if he isnt providing funding to cities than what does he want the cities to do? Wave pixie dust and make things happen magically?

At this point (though unlikely to happen with Liberals or Conservatives in power), Toronto needs to appeal for a federal version of the City of Toronto Act, allowing for autonomy and tax collection outside of the province's jurisdiction. As a longtime Toronto resident, it's getting so frustrating watching cities elsewhere progress, while Toronto regresses, or at best maintains a status quo. We can't grow as a city if the province keeps wanting to treat the city like a noisy child.

 

[zang]

Just scrap the kids-ride-free in that case (and/or maybe increase the student/senior fares), and leave the adult fares alone, ty.

FFS, not this again. Kids riding free are no big strain on the system, and in fact encourage more paying fares. I get it, some people don't like kids getting to ride free.

 

[Richard White]

Whatever they do, I hope they don't touch the line 2 replacement funding to solve this budget shortfall.

The TTC is stupid enough to do this while increasing service on other routes even though they are crying poor.

Look, we need to raise fares and get rid of some concessions. Kids should not ride free, discounted fares I agree with but not free.

Now.. having said that there is a cost to run the system. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, we need to jack up the fares to 5 bucks a person while showing meaningful improvements.

If you jack up the fares and keep service levels the same or worse, people will be upset but if people see more vehicles on the road and more frequent trains they will be less upset over it. You need to justify any fare increases but if you can, people are likely to stomach it better.

As well, you can play it off as having to do it because the provincial government won't subsidize the operating costs.

 

[zang]

The TTC is stupid enough to do this while increasing service on other routes even though they are crying poor.

Look, we need to raise fares and get rid of some concessions. Kids should not ride free, discounted fares I agree with but not free.

Look, we need to stop being one of the least subsidized major transit systems on the planet.

If you jack up the fares and keep service levels the same or worse, people will be upset but if people see more vehicles on the road and more frequent trains they will be less upset over it. You need to justify any fare increases but if you can, people are likely to stomach it better.

People will be upset at ANY fare raise of $1.50+, regardless of whether it comes with bonuses. You can see that, right?

As well, you can play it off as having to do it because the provincial government won't subsidize the operating costs.

And the province will simply do something insane, like block fare increases.

 

[T3G]

Just scrap the kids-ride-free in that case (and/or maybe increase the student/senior fares), and leave the adult fares alone, ty.


Whatever they do, I hope they don't touch the line 2 replacement funding to solve this budget shortfall.

This is a made up choice, capital cost money can't be used to cover deficits in the operational budget.

But if it was possible, if it was as simple as shuffling money around, it's fascinating to see where your priorities lie. If there is no money for operational costs, you would receive new trains and then be unable to run them. You have to first have the means to pay your rent and utilities before you replace your roof.

Also, why should standard edults be exempt from fare increases? Other than the fact that you belong to that group and want to see other people pick up the tab only.

 

[81-717]

But if it was possible, if it was as simple as shuffling money around, it's fascinating to see where your priorities lie. If there is no money for operational costs, you would receive new trains and then be unable to run them.

And if there's no money neither for new trains nor to run existing trains, they could just shut the line(s) down & scrap them without replacement, lol. Consider yourself lucky they're not shuffling money around at the expense of keeping a historical fleet

Also, why should standard edults be exempt from fare increases? Other than the fact that you belong to that group and want to see other people pick up the tab only.

Because adult fares are already the highest compared to senior/student let alone child fares, obviously, so increasing the latter while keeping them reduced compared to adult fares is only fair and would even things out, rather than adult fares having to pick up the tab. If fare increases apply to senior/student fares too, then fair enough, I was primarily referring to legal free rides.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Just scrap the kids-ride-free in that case (and/or maybe increase the student/senior fares), and leave the adult fares alone

Everyone should pay the same fare. If a senior or a minor go to the supermarket they pay the same price. Why is transit different? The senior prices on restaurant menus bug me too, since Boomers are amongst the richest Canadians of all time.

 

[T3G]

Consider yourself lucky they're not shuffling money around at the expense of keeping a historical fleet

Did you miss that everything except for the one GM was sent to Halton?

If you still genuinely think that they're going to be coming back when the Hillcrest construction, then I don't know what to tell you. It was easy to sink the costs of transporting them into the capital cost of redoing Hillcrest, but there will be no such budget when the project is wrapped up. Then, if they come back, you can lord it over me.

Because adult fares are already the highest compared to senior/student let alone child fares, obviously, so increasing the latter while keeping them reduced compared to adult fares is only fair and would even things out, rather than adult fares having to pick up the tab. If fare increases apply to senior/student fares too, then fair enough, I was primarily referring to legal free rides.

I assume that a fare increase will affect all groups. But the TTC would be dumb to not collect more money from their biggest and most financially solvent group of riders.

N.B. as far as I know, student discounts only apply to those who purchase passes. If you're one of those silly buggers who don't ride the TTC enough to make buying a pass financially justifiable, you pay full price.

 

[81-717]

Did you miss that everything except for the one GM was sent to Halton?

If you still genuinely think that they're going to be coming back when the Hillcrest construction, then I don't know what to tell you. It was easy to sink the costs of transporting them into the capital cost of redoing Hillcrest, but there will be no such budget when the project is wrapped up. Then, if they come back, you can lord it over me.

I don't care if they get sent to Australia or wherever, it has no effect on the historical fleet's existence, even if someone else picks up the tab for the TTC.

N.B. as far as I know, student discounts only apply to those who purchase passes.

Post-secondary, yes. As for secondary students (up to and including age 19), discounts apply regardless of fare type. And having checked the TTC website, turns out senior & student fares aren't quite the same thing either, and senior fare is 10 cents cheaper still.

 

[Northern Light]

FFS, not this again. Kids riding free are no big strain on the system, and in fact encourage more paying fares. I get it, some people don't like kids getting to ride free.

Kids riding free encourages fare evasion by teens.

They are in the habit of not paying, its difficult to break.

The age at which payment is supposed to begin, is one difficult to distinguish from the age when one is free, and neither age (12/13) is required to, or likely to carry photo ID.

12 and under is free is cost in-efficient, and since it goes equally to the rich as to lower income folks its not redistributive.

2/3 and under is free is fine, if you're in a stroller on a parent's lap.

Otherwise eliminating age concession of all types is ideal (the savings can be used to lower adult fares if desired)

It results in lower fare evasion, greater enforcement, and is much cheaper to administer.

Its hardly the only change the TTC requires, but it would be a good one.

 

[Northern Light]

N.B. as far as I know, student discounts only apply to those who purchase passes. If you're one of those silly buggers who don't ride the TTC enough to make buying a pass financially justifiable, you pay full price.

Students (HS) get the discount w/o a pass. Post-secondary students must buy a pass.

 

[APTA-2048]

Kids riding free encourages fare evasion by teens.

They are in the habit of not paying, its difficult to break.

The age at which payment is supposed to begin, is one difficult to distinguish from the age when one is free, and neither age (12/13) is required to, or likely to carry photo ID.

I’m glad you said this. Talk to any operator and this is exactly why they hate this initiative.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

We're almost duplicating the crisis that Philadelphia's SEPTA is facing. Dated September 20, 2024.

In Philadelphia, for example, the regional transportation authority could face a $240-million deficit after Covid relief funds run out. The Southeast Pennsylvania Transit Authority was expecting $161 million in state funds this budget cycle, but the legislature and governor sent only $51 million. Without a way to make up the immediate shortfall, SEPTA has said that it will implement service cuts and fare increases. Gov. Josh Shapiro never signed a proposed tweak in the state's sales tax allocation — a major source of transportation funding.

See https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/09/20/doom-loop-alert-transit-systems-are-suffering-and-too-many-are-cutting-service

---

Dated September 6, 2025...

Full SEPTA service to be restored Sept. 14, if state approves agency’s request to dip into maintenance funds​

A roughly 21% fare hike will also go into effect that day.​

See https://whyy.org/articles/septa-service-restored-september-14-maintenance-funding/

 

[Northern Light]

I’m glad you said this. Talk to any operator and this is exactly why they hate this initiative.

I had a discussion with TTC Special Constables recently on this point. They were adamant that it made enforcement much more challenging.

 

[nstuch]

Students (HS) get the discount w/o a pass. Post-secondary students must buy a pass.

you have to get a student Presto card by taking the child's ID to Shoppers when you buy a card to validate their age. Then, when they tap it's at the student rate instead of adult.