[T3G]

Many are remnants of the old boroughs. In fact many on main roads have been replaced with traffic signals over the years after people got killed while using them correctly. Eglinton is definitely not suitable for those kinds of crossings.

What else can be done, besides jaywalking?

If we want to improve the experience of existing in the suburbs for people who are not motorists, the status quo is not acceptable, nor is nanny state nonsense like putting up fences to block people from jaywalking. (If they are really determined, they will simply scale said fence). If people want to know why so many people on sites like these are against cars, it's because of stuff like this, because we keep building streets where pedestrian utility is merely an afterthought. Of course, no one wants to walk on an ugly traffic sewer like Eglinton, but often circumstances dictate otherwise.

Fences are also a problematic idea because, as pictured upthread, the space between the track and the road is very narrow, and if you ever need to evacuate a train car mid-section, or have the authorities respond to a situation on board a train car... how are they going to get in?

 

[txlseries4]

why are you not crossing the road at the designated stoplight, why are you crossing active train tracks.

1. It’s hot out and you are tired from walking and want the shorter way
2. Walking is difficult for you so you look for a shorter route
3. You’ve been safe taking this way before
4. You’re unaware there are trains because you haven’t seen any before
5. You want to go 40m across the street and don’t want to walk 200m out of your way to get there
6. You don’t see any cars in either direction so you feel like it’s safe
7. You suddenly need to go to the bathroom and your home is across the street
8. You see the bus you need to catch and will miss it unless you cross the tracks
9. You’re late for something
10. You have a cognitive impairment that impacts your decision making or impedes your sense of danger
11. You see a chance to cross, see the LRV, but underestimate its speed
12. You just found out there’s a family emergency and are rushing to get somewhere

We won’t know why for this woman but the incident and the anecdote about police stopping others from crossing show me that what happened is a byproduct of the whole area’s design. I’m not saying she’s not at fault, but this was entirely predictable

 

[Richard White]

If there is a driveway or a side street, we should expect to have people in the vicinity.
View attachment 672324

Should be some sort of barrier to direct pedestrians away from crossing at driveways and side-streets. View attachment 672331

For once I agree with Walter.

I have lived in this area since 1993 and people have for decades crossed midblock along Eglinton from Birchmount to VP/O'Connor. The reason for this is the distance between lights and the former islands.

When they put the LRT in, the distance remained the same but they took out alot of the former traffic islands and crossings. Prudham gate lost its traffic lights while the section from Lebovic to VP lost its traffic islands.

For example..

This is Lebovic and Eglinton in 2013

VS Lebovic and Eglinton in 2024

This is Prudham Gate and Eglinton in 2009.. note the traffic lights and pedestrian crossing.

VS Prudham Gate and Eglinton in 2024. Note the missing lights and crossing.

Lastly.. see the spot of todays incident in 2009. Note the large islands mid-block.

This image was taken in June at the spot of todays incident.

One could argue that the LRT actually made things less safe for pedestrians by removing less than ideal but safer mid-block crossing points. I am not saying that any one thing caused this, I am however saying that with large distances between protected crossings this was bound to happen eventually.

 

[TOtramz]

Most people properly judge distances and oncoming vehicles speeds so that they can cross mid-block safely. Many people will continue to do this even when the line is in revenue service.
My only hope is that the TTC does not overreact to this and change their operations substantially because of this incident.

 

[crs1026]

There are sections of the row that are profoundly unsafe to cross because the track structure and devices are quite pedestrian unfriendly. Hopefully there are measurea to keep people off those. That is very different from any other Toronto streetcar route where at least the surface is level and walkable.

Other sections including the grass strips may be more inviting, although I’m not sure the footing is as solid as it may look. I’m not sure what it will take to remove the temptation to wLk over the tracks here.

There is absolutely no room for error as the space between roadway and track is not a refuge point on either side, nor is the space between the two tracks.

If the attitude is “cross at your own risk” - I do think some additional crossover points are needed to mitigate the hazard. It’s reasonable to require people to use only the formal crossing points… provided there are enough of these.

- Paul

 

[TOtramz]

There are sections of the row that are profoundly unsafe to cross because the track structure and devices are quite pedestrian unfriendly. Hopefully there are measurea to keep people off those. That is very different from any other Toronto streetcar route where at least the surface is level and walkable.

Other sections including the grass strips may be more inviting, although I’m not sure the footing is as solid as it may look. I’m not sure what it will take to remove the temptation to wLk over the tracks here.

There is absolutely no room for error as the space between roadway and track is not a refuge point on either side, nor is the space between the two tracks.

If the attitude is “cross at your own risk” - I do think some additional crossover points are needed to mitigate the hazard. It’s reasonable to require people to use only the formal crossing points… provided there are enough of these.

- Paul

I agree with what you posted above but I only wonder if adding even more traffic lights will delay the line even further and also make the surface section slower than it already is

 

[Steve X]

Most people properly judge distances and oncoming vehicles speeds so that they can cross mid-block safely. Many people will continue to do this even when the line is in revenue service.
My only hope is that the TTC does not overreact to this and change their operations substantially because of this incident.

If there is no fencing and people don’t change their behaviours, this is the first of many incidents. People might not realize they can’t stand on the edge of the tracks. If this stuff continues, TTC will slow down.

Let I said before, nothing is done in Chinatown and Queens Quay to stop people from stepping on the tracks. So TTC adapted to a slower operation for a whole decade now.

 

[dowlingm]

If this is what it’s like now, what’s it going to be like when all the towers replace the commercial along that stretch?

Mind you, I think there should be some consideration that this is in fact now a mixed rail and road environment and the rail part has a higher speed limit (60km/h, by council decision, as is Finch) and thus tolerating pedestrian crossing other than at signalled crossings is not an answer.

We don’t tolerate pedestrian crossings of the 400 series or Gardiner/DVP, and therefore there should be pressure on the City to figure out how to provide mid block crossing above or below grade to provide a reasonable alternative and permit barriers to be erected along such stretches at grade.

 

[a2z]

Frankfurt's at-grade portion of its A-line has the same characteristic as Eglinton where there are crossings that are spread quite far apart. It historically has had ~1 death per year (33 deaths in 42 years), albeit the trains have higher frequency there. (The point being they have gone through the challenges we currently / are about to face, for decades)

The safety measures it has introduced since (I am making the assumption that these did not exist from the get-go) include:
- they added barriers to all areas that weren't crossings to discourage jaywalking (but they aren't too high, so technically could be hopped over)
- and for the crossings that do exist, you can see how (like below) they are designed in a way to attempt to get someone to take more time to "look" both ways and judge the situation (which we already use at some of the bike trail crossings, e.g. Beltline Trail & Oriole, Lower Don & Pottery)

And at certain stations, there are underground pathways that are necessary to access the station / allow you to cross a busy intersection without having to worry about being sandwiched by passing trains

But even with all these measures, I wouldn't be surprised if there are still a non-zero number of accidents each year there, since the problem of people being forced to take lengthy detours to cross one single street will still persist (and therefore they may hop a fence / use a straight road crossing / or simply miscalculate the situation at a crossing if they are in a hurry)

 

[Amare]

I dont know why the solution always has to be rocket science in Toronto.

Not to say that the entire at-grade corridor needs fencing, but a healthy dose of it would be wise to implement.

Something like this (as seen in Santa Monica) would be easy enough to implement, but it's not going to happen:

 

[kev1n1m]

I noticed something the DAY they lay the grass down:

The grass doesn't extend to the curb, it stops at the rail. The grass therefore does not extend the full width of the LRT vehicle. This will give pedestrians the impression that there is a gap you can stand in safely, but there isn't. The LRT extends at least another foot I'm sure, plus mirrors, etc. extending further. The very first day I saw this I thought it was stupid, people will think they can cross mid-block, stand on the concrete median, and wait, but they cannot.

As a result, more people will be hit, or LRTs will constantly be on the lookout for pedestrians, or they will add fences. Or they will rip out the grass. One year max after opening. Mark my words. I don't know how it's possible that none of the 12,000 VPs at Metrolinx saw this design and didn't spot the immediate flaw.

 

[rdaner]

As sad as this is I wonder if this reaction is a bit pointless as pedestrians will be hit crossing illegally along any road at some point and this is likely not above average. According to ChatGTP a jaywalker was hit by a wheelchair van on Eglinton/Allen. This person took a calculated risk and must have been very close to the moving 30 ton vehicle and kept going.

 

[ThenWhat]

What I find particularly interesting is how not a single politician at City Hall or Queen’s Park (either side of the aisle) is actively demanding an independent investigation. That’s because Crosslinx Transit Solutions includes SNC-Lavalin and EllisDon…..two companies deeply tied to Ontario’s political elite across party lines.

Adil Shamji, MPP for the Don Valley East riding, is asking for a public enquiry into ELRT. He is circulating a petition to that effect, which you can sign.

 

[ThenWhat]

I agree with what you posted above but I only wonder if adding even more traffic lights will delay the line even further and also make the surface section slower than it already is

Adding more traffic lights would not be a problem if they were set up to give priority to the trains. We can have a traffic light every 100 meters as long the LRT always has the green light.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Just put a low fence down the devilstrip (the section between the opposite direction tracks. Let squirrels, raccoons, coyotes, and geese be able to cross, but give a suggestion to automobiles, humans, cattle, and bisons not to.