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Knowing the risk tolerance of the TTC, yeah the Scarborough section of track will be operating at 30km/h pretty soon.
So how is that going to work? The trains will runs faster in the underground portion, but run slower at the at-grade portion? Will the trains have to run slower in the underground portion in order to match the speed of the above ground portion? Trains in the underground portion will have to wait longer at stations to allow for proper spacing between trains?

30km/h is pretty pitiful. No one should be referring to this line as "rapid" transit. A lot of money was spent for what's essentially a glorified streetcar.
 
So how is that going to work? The trains will runs faster in the underground portion, but run slower at the at-grade portion? Will the trains have to run slower in the underground portion in order to match the speed of the above ground portion? Trains in the underground portion will have to wait longer at stations to allow for proper spacing between trains?

30km/h is pretty pitiful. No one should be referring to this line as "rapid" transit. A lot of money was spent for what's essentially a glorified streetcar.
Slower speeds at one part of a line have never been the cause of bunching, unless the speed restrictions are followed by some vehicles but not others.

Further reading:

 
Has there been any testing today?
I think normal rapid transit lines are back up and running shortly after the injured people and vehicles are evacuated from the premises....
 
So how is that going to work? The trains will runs faster in the underground portion, but run slower at the at-grade portion? Will the trains have to run slower in the underground portion in order to match the speed of the above ground portion? Trains in the underground portion will have to wait longer at stations to allow for proper spacing between trains?

30km/h is pretty pitiful. No one should be referring to this line as "rapid" transit. A lot of money was spent for what's essentially a glorified streetcar.
The trains are driven manually on the surface section so they just drive slowly in trouble zones. The trip run time will extend requiring more trains on the line at the same time but headways will remain the same. So they can still operate at 80 km/h in the tunnels and 50/60 km/h elsewhere on the surface.

Are they even doing the allowed 60 on the surface? I don’t remember.
 
Slower speeds at one part of a line have never been the cause of bunching, unless the speed restrictions are followed by some vehicles but not others.

Further reading:

But this is what I want to know. Will the underground portion of the line have to slow down to match the at-grade portion of the line?

Also how is spacing between trains going to be affected if you have an eastbound train hitting every red light at the at-grade portion, and there is a train behind them in the underground portion catching up because they have no street lights to adhere to.
 
So they can still operate at 80 km/h in the tunnels and 50/60 km/h elsewhere on the surface.
I don't understand how that can work. How does that not lead to a bunching up of eastbound trains? Particularly around the tunnel portal. Especially when you take streetlights on the surface portion into account.

We have a transit line that effectively acts as a metro/subway for 2/3 of the line, and then the last 1/3 acts as a street car/ LRT. How does that not lead to operational complexities? Particularly around train spacing.
 
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Fences are also a problematic idea because, as pictured upthread, the space between the track and the road is very narrow, and if you ever need to evacuate a train car mid-section, or have the authorities respond to a situation on board a train car... how are they going to get in?
In that case just use the doors on the other side of the LRV.

I do agree with fencing along the ROW, but not so high that they can't be scaled by a determined individual, possibly with a few midblock crossings with refuge islands on either side of the ROW. And on that I would have liked a pedestrian and bike underpass near Jonesville Crescent for the Meadowway corridor.
 
But this is what I want to know. Will the underground portion of the line have to slow down to match the at-grade portion of the line?

No. If all cars are subjected to the same speed conditions, they should all take an equal amount of time to complete their journey.

Also how is spacing between trains going to be affected if you have an eastbound train hitting every red light at the at-grade portion, and there is a train behind them in the underground portion catching up because they have no street lights to adhere to.

When the car in the underground portion reaches the surface section, it, too, will be subjected to traffic lights, thus naturally maintaining distancing between the trains.
 
Or even what they do in Kitchener-Waterloo, where there are gates and audible warning signals that sound when a train approaches. Putting up a wall would just make an already pedestrian hostile landscape more unpleasant to traverse.
The implementation of the Ion has been terrible. Bad enough that someone created a site to literally count every interaction with traffic/bikes/pedestrians:

 
Ah jeez! We should have just restarted construction on the Eglinton subway after Mike Harris was voted out. This is ridiculous!

In regards to keeping pedestrians off the track. We could do what Calgary does with the C-train. Just put up jersey barriers dividing the track from the road. It works 100% of the time, keeping both pedestrians and automobiles off the track. Unfortunately though it makes for a rather ugly streetscape.
the only reason the jersey barriers exist there is because that road is designed as a super-4 expressway rather than a stroad like Eglinton.
 
The implementation of the Ion has been terrible. Bad enough that someone created a site to literally count every interaction with traffic/bikes/pedestrians:

Respectfully, I dont see how this proves anything other than accidents do happen.

Safety is relative. Do we have comparisons to similar systems around the world ? Has anyone written a report on IONs shortcomings in this respect?
 
The implementation of the Ion has been terrible. Bad enough that someone created a site to literally count every interaction with traffic/bikes/pedestrians:

and if you were to do the same with the legacy streetcar network it would paint an even worse image than that site presents. The only difference is, most collisions involving the streetcars aren't all that newsworthy in Toronto.
 
The implementation of the Ion has been terrible. Bad enough that someone created a site to literally count every interaction with traffic/bikes/pedestrians:


The ION has not been terrible by any stretch of the imagination. While it obviously isn't perfect it is still a system that is functional and something that doesn't exist in pretty much all similar sized metros in North America, one doesn't even have to look outside of Southern Ontario to realize this. KW has one, Hamilton and London both don't.

First the ION was planned in the early 2010s when KW was still by most peoples definition a small city, there were design choices made that in hindsight weren't the best however unlike every other municipality (except Ottawa) the Region of Waterloo actually had to fund it. The province and federal government only funded 2/3rds of the capital cost with the Region making up the rest, so yes it could be better but the Region of Waterloo spent over 300 million dollars on it, yet municipalities like Mississauga, Brampton and Hamilton just get thrown money to build them so of course when the municipality itself is funding it there are going to be cost saving measures implemented.

Implementation has also not been terrible, the primary reason KWs LRT didn't open on time was Bombardiers inability to provide trains on time. The original opening date was 2017 but it got pushed to 2019 almost exclusively because of the lack of vehicles. Sure the ION isn't anywhere near as complicated as Eglinton or even Hurontario but Metrolinx has the oversight on those and they've been complete fiascos which KW did not have.

Then just to explain the stats sure there has been about 65 collisions since the LRT opened but that was 2239 days ago, or 1 crash for every 34 days. There is approximately 1 million km travelled per year by the LRTs which means roughly 1 crash for every 90000km. That's far from the doom and gloom you are making it out to be.

Like any transit system there could be changes made to make the system better, be this better signal priority, KW has it but a few places behave in a weird way (nearside stations). Sure the signaling could be better on the train spurs (approaching Erb and approaching Hayward) but these aren't making the system terrible.
 
The ION has not been terrible by any stretch of the imagination. While it obviously isn't perfect it is still a system that is functional and something that doesn't exist in pretty much all similar sized metros in North America, one doesn't even have to look outside of Southern Ontario to realize this. KW has one, Hamilton and London both don't.

The interaction of road and transit vehicles has been problematic.

The GRT even owned themselves pointing this out about two years ago.


I lived in KW most of the ‘00s and still have half my family living there. The Ion isn’t really held in a great light, even by locals. It’s often too slow, too infrequent, and too often dealing with cars. Why weren’t all road sections grade separated? You’re telling me that car interaction, after all human beings have learned after 150+ years of trams, is “good implementation”? This was a system planned and built entirely in the 21st century; not a legacy system like the TTC.

I’m one of the most pro transit people you’ll ever find, but OMG did they not plan Ion well. Is it really doing that much better than the iXpress bus it replaced?

Mississauga, Brampton and Hamilton just get thrown money to build them so of course when the municipality itself is funding it there are going to be cost saving measures implemented.
“Of course”. Yeah, but KW had a lot of their own money to throw at it. That area makes gobs of money. There’s a reason it was called Canada’s Silicon Valley for so long, and in part it’s because like The Valley it had tax revenue to throw at just about anything it wanted.

Implementation has also not been terrible, the primary reason KWs LRT didn't open on time was Bombardiers inability to provide trains on time. The original opening date was 2017 but it got pushed to 2019 almost exclusively because of the lack of vehicles.

Yeah, my mother’s apartment building literally backed onto the Ion line. Delays weren’t just because of vehicles, trust me.

Sure the ION isn't anywhere near as complicated as Eglinton or even Hurontario but Metrolinx has the oversight on those and they've been complete fiascos which KW did not have.

Have you looked into the BS that is phase 2? It’s already delayed, may end up being a BRT permanently, or not even connect to Phase 1 and stop at Preston. Cambridge are pushing for the BRT option hard, because they don’t have the tax base that K-W has, and could save a few bucks on capital. If Ion were a roaring success in the minds of the golden triangle, why the desire to switch to BRT?

Then just to explain the stats sure there has been about 65 collisions since the LRT opened but that was 2239 days ago, or 1 crash for every 34 days. There is approximately 1 million km travelled per year by the LRTs which means roughly 1 crash for every 90000km.
…For a system that runs quite a bit on a former rail corridors, operates only 15 vehicles total, and at its peak frequency runs one vehicle every ~15 minutes.

Collisions should be far less than about once a month on a modern day system.

Like any transit system there could be changes made to make the system better, be this better signal priority, KW has it but a few places behave in a weird way (nearside stations). Sure the signaling could be better on the train spurs (approaching Erb and approaching Hayward) but these aren't making the system terrible.
Crossing arms activating waaaaay too early or while a vehicle is in station aren’t a sign of good implementation are they?
 
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