jcam
Active Member
Van fleet to bring back bikes for centralized charging is very inefficient and adds to the operating costs.
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- Thread starter kettal
- Start date
afransen
Senior Member
They don't bring back bikes, they swap batteries in the field.
LukaMilo8
New Member
Better yet, create a volunteer program for highschool students that already have to get their 40 hours. I would've loved to cruise around the city returning bikes for my volunteer hours. You could even integrate this with student passes now that city bike age restrictions are being lowered. Furthermore, I wonder if removing bike lanes would be harder to justify if city bikes became a more popular means of getting to schools.
Towered
Superstar
Passed by the dock at Humbertown this evening, and it was completely empty - in this shit weather???
Mihairokov
Active Member
Can confirm the QR code capture is a lot more effective now. Although when I tried to unlock an ebike it wouldn't release from the dock and I had to do that thing where I lift the back of the bike when it's unlocking to release it properly.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I almost do this by second nature now haha.
I think it is a dock wear&tear issue and in some stations also an uneven elevation issue.
jcam
Active Member
Thought you meant for Toronto. BikeShare bikes do not have easily removeable batteries, so can't swap them, and they won't be wholesale replacing the fleet to move away from that. Other cities are moving away from the battery swaps for their own challenges.
afransen
Senior Member
We were talking about dockless bike share.
chrisw
Active Member
Yes, elevation. Ran into that problem recently when returning a bike, needed to lift the back to seat it. Usually I just ram it in but it didn't work that time. I guess if I do that on normal occasions it'll be easier on the dock and I don't need to ram it in to connect.
I didn't try replicating to test the QR reader more rigorously but I had a recent experience with instant QR code reading. The QR code wasn't in frame, and I think it instantly got recognized before the whole QR code showed up. Very surprised how quick it was.
elcorrerador
Active Member
Random fact, the Hamburg bike share membership only costs €5/year. This is insane unless I'm misreading something.
Also they even have cargo pedelecs.
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Also they even have cargo pedelecs.
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afransen
Senior Member
I think that's looking at a bikeshare system as transportation infrastructure, not a business that needs to recover costs. It seems to me that bikeshare systems are relatively inexpensive on a subsidy/ride basis compared to public transport or cars.
Northern Light
Superstar
Worth saying, Bikeshare Toronto is actually profitable from May to September inclusive (peak ridership season); but it loses money, a fair bit, in the off season.
If we actually pulled the bikes by Halloween and started deploying in April each year, the system would break-even or make a slight profit; if we (as a City) were willing to sustain the current loss, but amortize the subsidy over the peak-season only, we could certainly drop pricing a bit.
This is from 2023:
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DSCToronto
Superstar
The Economist has just published a piece on the e-bikes in London (UK). Here is an extract of it...
Until now. In central London, the survey shows, bikes have overtaken cars to become the most common vehicle. On current trends, they will outnumber all motor vehicles—cars, buses, motorbikes, vans and lorries—within two years (see chart). Will Norman, the cycling commissioner, reckons the city has reached a tipping-point, with much of the surge coming from people who had not previously been persuaded to pedal.
What changed? Most riders still use personal bikes, which account for 60% of the increase since 2022 (helped by all those cycle lanes). But in the past two years the use of rental-electric bikes has increased four-fold. So ubiquitous are a whizzy white-and-green variety that the fruit they are named after has become a verb: “Shall we Lime?” Londoners ask. The Californian company behind them has more than 200,000 bikes in 280 cities, from Paris to San Francisco. But London’s is by far its most extensive service, with some 30,000 bikes across 480 square kilometres and 17 boroughs. (Forest, a British company and Lime’s main competitor, operates in 14.)
London’s bike boom offers several lessons. The first is that while many people enjoy the thrill and convenience of cycling, some dislike the effort. London introduced docked bikes in 2010. It has had electric bikes for hire since 2011. But usage took off with the introduction of Lime’s powerful Gen4 bike in 2022. All rental-electric bikes have a top speed of 25kph. But Limes have rapid acceleration, enabling riders to zip around with little exertion.
If one secret is making the bikes really electric, the other seems to be making them really dockless. Previously, bike-hire schemes offered a patchy service: it was often hard to find a bike and it could take ages to find a designated parking space. Today, London’s operators have more bikes. But critically they have negotiated relaxed parking rules, including on residential streets, meaning their fleets fan out widely. Lime claims that 97% of Londoners in its service area live within a two-minute walk of one of their bikes. As with Uber, it thinks users open the app if they know convenience is only a few minutes away.
There have been teething problems. It is hard to ensure that riders park considerately, not in the middle of the pavement. In the city centre, there are now tightly enforced parking zones, though this can lead to bikes clustered like a shoal. In the rest of the city, operators try to enforce good behaviour by making riders take photos. With more investment in cycle parking, cities should be able to solve this (around ten bikes fit into each car space).
A second concern is safety. With large electric motors and a sturdy vandal-proof design, Limes are around four times the weight of an average bike. That makes them easy to tip over. Electric-bike riders tend not to wear helmets and seem especially likely to run traffic lights, perhaps because they are paying by the minute. London’s orthopaedic surgeons complain about a spurt of broken bones. Some critics are calling for tighter regulation.
Still, moving people from cars onto bikes helps make cities more liveable. And a truly city-spanning bike-hire scheme—of which London is now perhaps the leading example—offers extra benefits. It is a highly efficient way of filling gaps in an urban-transport system, connecting areas poorly served by buses and trains. City administrators lose some fare revenue, but they benefit from less pressure at peak times, and they can charge bike operators a service fee for their licence.
In commuting hours, Lime’s data show that many riders use the bikes for first- or last-mile trips: getting to the nearest Tube or from a railway station to the office. For many, this shaves a third or more off their commute. Not only does that give people time back, it expands the pool of workers a company might be able to hire. Economists have not yet properly studied these benefits, but they could well be large. Previous research found that installing docking points raised rents in nearby houses.
Regulation will have to make sure there are sensible parking rules and bikes are well maintained. Cities will also want to foster competition. At around £7 ($6.40) an hour Liming is quite pricey. This month Voi, a Swedish operator, launched a lower-priced scheme in west London. Regulators will need to get the balance right. With a higher usage rate, operators can invest in maintaining their fleet and moving bikes around. Three or four city-wide operators might be ideal; too many would probably result in piles of bikes in the city centre.
Until now. In central London, the survey shows, bikes have overtaken cars to become the most common vehicle. On current trends, they will outnumber all motor vehicles—cars, buses, motorbikes, vans and lorries—within two years (see chart). Will Norman, the cycling commissioner, reckons the city has reached a tipping-point, with much of the surge coming from people who had not previously been persuaded to pedal.
What changed? Most riders still use personal bikes, which account for 60% of the increase since 2022 (helped by all those cycle lanes). But in the past two years the use of rental-electric bikes has increased four-fold. So ubiquitous are a whizzy white-and-green variety that the fruit they are named after has become a verb: “Shall we Lime?” Londoners ask. The Californian company behind them has more than 200,000 bikes in 280 cities, from Paris to San Francisco. But London’s is by far its most extensive service, with some 30,000 bikes across 480 square kilometres and 17 boroughs. (Forest, a British company and Lime’s main competitor, operates in 14.)
London’s bike boom offers several lessons. The first is that while many people enjoy the thrill and convenience of cycling, some dislike the effort. London introduced docked bikes in 2010. It has had electric bikes for hire since 2011. But usage took off with the introduction of Lime’s powerful Gen4 bike in 2022. All rental-electric bikes have a top speed of 25kph. But Limes have rapid acceleration, enabling riders to zip around with little exertion.
If one secret is making the bikes really electric, the other seems to be making them really dockless. Previously, bike-hire schemes offered a patchy service: it was often hard to find a bike and it could take ages to find a designated parking space. Today, London’s operators have more bikes. But critically they have negotiated relaxed parking rules, including on residential streets, meaning their fleets fan out widely. Lime claims that 97% of Londoners in its service area live within a two-minute walk of one of their bikes. As with Uber, it thinks users open the app if they know convenience is only a few minutes away.
There have been teething problems. It is hard to ensure that riders park considerately, not in the middle of the pavement. In the city centre, there are now tightly enforced parking zones, though this can lead to bikes clustered like a shoal. In the rest of the city, operators try to enforce good behaviour by making riders take photos. With more investment in cycle parking, cities should be able to solve this (around ten bikes fit into each car space).
A second concern is safety. With large electric motors and a sturdy vandal-proof design, Limes are around four times the weight of an average bike. That makes them easy to tip over. Electric-bike riders tend not to wear helmets and seem especially likely to run traffic lights, perhaps because they are paying by the minute. London’s orthopaedic surgeons complain about a spurt of broken bones. Some critics are calling for tighter regulation.
Still, moving people from cars onto bikes helps make cities more liveable. And a truly city-spanning bike-hire scheme—of which London is now perhaps the leading example—offers extra benefits. It is a highly efficient way of filling gaps in an urban-transport system, connecting areas poorly served by buses and trains. City administrators lose some fare revenue, but they benefit from less pressure at peak times, and they can charge bike operators a service fee for their licence.
In commuting hours, Lime’s data show that many riders use the bikes for first- or last-mile trips: getting to the nearest Tube or from a railway station to the office. For many, this shaves a third or more off their commute. Not only does that give people time back, it expands the pool of workers a company might be able to hire. Economists have not yet properly studied these benefits, but they could well be large. Previous research found that installing docking points raised rents in nearby houses.
Regulation will have to make sure there are sensible parking rules and bikes are well maintained. Cities will also want to foster competition. At around £7 ($6.40) an hour Liming is quite pricey. This month Voi, a Swedish operator, launched a lower-priced scheme in west London. Regulators will need to get the balance right. With a higher usage rate, operators can invest in maintaining their fleet and moving bikes around. Three or four city-wide operators might be ideal; too many would probably result in piles of bikes in the city centre.
Northern Light
Superstar
London's population is about 9 million, Toronto's about 3M
For a relative sense of scale, the primary bikeshare service there with 30,000 bikes would equate to about 10,000 here which we are just a bit shy of..Of note though, there is a major competitor, such that a further 15,000 bikes are available to Londoners....which would bring a Toronto equivalency to 15,000. Then, there's another 12,000 in the Sandtander system............adding another 4,000 equivalency.
So overall, for Toronto to see a similar performance, we would need to see about 19,000 bikes available..which would be just over double the current number.
rbt
Senior Member
The population of the covered area (~480km^2) is about 4 million which is much closer in both size and population to where Toronto Bike Share will be in a few years (once every ward has some service).
Obviously with significant implementation differences and London's population distribution seems better suited toward bike share.