Northern Light
Superstar
The area is regulated by a Tripartate agreement between Parks Canada, The City of Toronto and the TRCA.
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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
The area is regulated by a Tripartate agreement between Parks Canada, The City of Toronto and the TRCA.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Could extend the Line 4 to Meadowvale Road and Sheppard Avenue West. Create a transit hub there with Durham Regional Transit, Most importantly rebuild the Toronto Zoo Domain Ride with a new separate zoo entrance at the transit hub.
Northern Light
Superstar
Good Grief Walter.............
This is not a fantasy thread.
A trillion dollars did not fall from the sky yesterday.
This idea is going nowhere.
Now please, give it a rest.
evandyk
Senior Member
This spot is clearly crying out for a major transit hub.
micheal_can
Senior Member
An unwalkable single family subdivision is not the place most transit hubs would be placed.
Aplus23
Active Member
The EELRT branches off & goes to Malvern town center, the heart of Malvern, how wouldn't that serve Malvern residents, plus it hits the Morningside corridor, east of McCowan corridor on Eglinton and then would meet up at Sheppard & McCowan for a transit hub there
There's not really much you can tell me to disapprove of the EELRT when I live & use that corridor frequently and would love to be on LRT for those trips rather than a Bus even if the time savings is minimal, nor do I think it would be minimal if it included TSP or even better if it was elevated
Northern Light
Superstar
You don't need to tell me where transit proposals are routed. I often tell UT'ers that....before its even public.
Because you need to examine the majority of trips made for school, for work and for shopping to ascertain where people in Malvern wish to go in large numbers and then assess how best to get them there in a timely manner, cost effectively.
While a connection UTSC has some utility, the majority of residents are neither students, nor employees of UTSC and demand on Sheppard east of Neilson is relatively low.
The connections of greatest value are to Scarborough Town Centre, Centenary Hospital, Milner Business Park and Centennial College, and points west along Sheppard.
So be it. But I prefer to decide things based on evidence, rather than personal anecdote.
There is a finite amount of money to go around, I think we can do better for Malvern residents than the EELRT. I've explained the alternatives at some length in the past, I won't bother again, since your mind is made up.
So you'd prefer a really slow streetcar to subway? Ok then.
Aplus23
Active Member
Well you didn't need to tell me about the proposal of the transit line, I might not be the transit enthusiasts like you, but I am quite aware of the transit line
So how do you ascertain personally where the Malvern residents are going to & coming from & how would the Sheppard line help with the residents of Malvern? Your entire post reeks of a belittling nature but I'll continue to follow along
So why on earth would anyone advocate for a full subway instead of an lrt if ridership is relatively low ??
None of these locations are along Sheppard so a bus or another connection is needed for all of those destinations, again what does that have to do with the EELRT - Infact the EELRT routing is closer to all those destinations than Sheppard is
I mean as someone who frequently uses that route and live in the area, it wouldn't necessarily be anecdotal as I come with real life experience, I along with everyone who takes the 905/116/86/ and whatever # the Neilson bus is, wouldn't all those users love the EELRT, is that not evidence?
Please enlighten me what other routes that are in discussion that would aliviate Malvern + UTSC + anything east of Kennedy along Eglinton like the EELRT
Why does it have to be a slow streetcar? Why couldn't it be a faster moving streetcar with TSP & good transit priority, looks like you're the one with the mind made up,
I would prefer a streetcar in a dedicated lane compared to a bus in a dedicated lane, hope that answers our question
Northern Light
Superstar
Because I have access to that data?
I'll happily put you on ignore to solve your problem.
As someone who regularly talks to people who are making these decisions, my level of understanding goes beyond 'enthusiast'
Any subway extension would be shorter than the EERLT, and far more cost-effective per rider, following a different alignment.
I'm not suggesting a subway to Meadowvale, or on Kingston Road.
Sigh. You just don't get it. That's not belittling. Its just a statement of fact.
Its anecdotal and preferential.
Quality evidence is ridership, where is it going, where does it want to go, how do you get it there, what does that cost per ride to deliver, etc.
The alignment of the Sheppard Subway is the primary item under review, both in the medium and the longer term.
I've given you enough information to piece together what's being looked at....
There are other things being looked at........
Because the Environmental Assessment, done by experts says its slow............. just wow. You act like I'm making this up and you can't read it all in studies and reports that are published, and linked to in the applicable threads.
Aplus23
Active Member
So you're being obtuse because you have data that I don't, cool, you still haven't explained how a transit desert like Malvern gets higher order transit
Doesn't hurt me, but that's besides my main argument or point...
Ok,if you wanna be referred to as an expert? Cool
I've been asking you again on where you want or expect the Sheppard line to go to that would help Malvern?
You've done none of that in this back and forth, you have explained why you don't like EELRT, you have not shown a viable alternative
No I am not saying you are making this up, I have read these forums and have seen those post, & the subsequent post that disputed the time savings or lack thereof, the stop spacing could be reduced to increase speeds no? Wouldn't TSP increase speeds, again I am asking questions & clearly not in the know like you claim to be, to dismiss everything without any viable alternative & then tell me I should piece together whatever it is you're trying to explain does no1 any justice
Why would the city or the ppl in know like you claim to know, why would they even advance the EELRT & complete some initial assessments and design if it wasn't viable or needed or wanted,
Northern Light
Superstar
I have said as much about what is being discussed behind closed doors as I feel comfortable saying.
Updated Business Case for the EELRT from 2023:
It shows up to 5 minutes travel savings in the peak.
More answers can be found in the public consultation report:
More in the Environmental Report:
This is the most recent report:
From this one........
Oh and the MSF is a beauty of an issue.
Real Estate development/valuation, economic development, keeping planning staff busy, delaying admitting that the project is unlikely to happen in the near or medium term.............among others.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Could both be done? An extension of line 4 eastward to PTC, or within the city of Toronto, and have an LRT network in the area to feed it?
Aplus23
Active Member
You first said there's no travel time savings, now here you listed it saves 5 minutes -
So a 5 minute saving time, a more enjoyable ride, especially in the winter, possibly more reliability, & hitting priority neighborhood areas like Galloway/Malvern & the Eglinton corridor east of Midland - again more pros from my side of the argument
There wouldn't be any overlap if Sheppard terminates at McCowan like in the current proposal suggest/ I highly doubt they bring a subway to Morningside on this go around but hey you know more than me.
I thought the MSF was tentatively scheduled to be placed by the new Rouge Valley community centre just east of morningside on Sheppard
ARG1
Senior Member
Its up to 5 minute savings in key areas where existing busses are slow, mainly due to no bus lanes. In the same document it shows that in places where dedicated RapidTO bus lanes are found (Eglinton, Morningside), the LRT will be SLOWER than the existing bus lanes.
The solution then for areas like Malvern then seems to be quite simple - just paint some bus lanes. It will likely result in faster travel times than the LRT, whilst only costing the city $4 Million instead of $4 Billion (I used the exact numbers used for Eglinton East - its a shorter section but with inflation it probably will be the same cost despite the length).
north-of-anything
Active Member
You don't think the built form of this area of Scarborough justifies both a subway extension and multiple LRT lines, do you?
The most cost-effective solution for that would be to finish the Ellesmere BRT, so local buses can cross over the 401 and allow transfers in both directions to Scarborough Centre and downtown Pickering. I would paint some bus lanes to where the Line 4 extension either ends or diverges off Sheppard, too.
Money that isn't spent on higher-order projects of dubious demand is money that doesn't need to be taxed out of Scarborough, and low taxes is what I'm led to believe they really want...