[mikey7767]

It will still be a white elephant if the line got built to VP as plan. All you are doing is moving one transfer pointo to another location for those going east of VP or using VP.

The amount of development around Yonge and Bayview are servicing two different things as well where riders want to go. You need to add Concord Place and Emerald City to the picture for ridership.

As someone who has follow all of Concord Place and Emerald City projects as we; some of Yonge and Bayview developments, ridership has bearly grown for the stations that service these developments. It bee said Bayview developments as well Concord Place mainly use the 401 than use transit. Emerald City residents want to be close to the 404 and 401 with few usinf the subway. Yonge is a mix bag as to what is used as well where they are going.

If and when the OL gets built to Sheppard and to Finch, you will see a better use of the Sheppard Subway but still not justifying it as well the extension.

"Yonge is a mix bag as to what is used as well where they are going"

I'm telling you guys here, this guy would be against the Yonge Subway too if it wasn't already built. An LRT on Sheppard is INSANE and the public does not want it. There were consultation events about the Sheppard Extension by Metrolinx and even more importantly, a town hall organized by three MPPs where they invited Metrolinx in November 2023, which this guy clearly missed or just ignored, because hundreds of residents showed up asking for a Subway. Drum thinks he knows better and that public opinion against LRTs is irrelevant, we should build them anyways just because *he* thinks it's a good idea for Sheppard. NO. Not interested.

 

[Voltz]

"Yonge is a mix bag as to what is used as well where they are going"

I'm telling you guys here, this guy would be against the Yonge Subway too if it wasn't already built. An LRT on Sheppard is INSANE and the public does not want it. There were consultation events about the Sheppard Extension by Metrolinx and even more importantly, a town hall organized by three MPPs where they invited Metrolinx in November 2023, which this guy clearly missed or just ignored, because hundreds of residents showed up asking for a Subway. Drum thinks he knows better and that public opinion against LRTs is irrelevant, we should build them anyways just because *he* thinks it's a good idea for Sheppard. NO. Not interested.

As I've said before, if there has ever been a ridership study that showed a Sheppard Subway was required or justified then it would be getting trotted out on this thread every chance the subway boosters got.

 

[stfeinberg]

When the Eglinton LRT finally opens, the public backlash against LRTs as a whole will be immense. The Sheppard subway is the correct decision both politically and pragmatically. People just don't know how bad the Eglinton LRT is actually going to be in terms of speed and ridership...

 

[north-of-anything]

I struggle to believe we will ever have an LRT converted to heavy metro, even when ridership warrants it. We will pass that point, and it will still feel roughly the same as it did a few years ago, it'll be fine. And that window will keep shifting until we need to relieve it on another corridor entirely.

Building Sheppard as heavy rail may have been a mistake, it may have been smart. I don't really know or care, but it's here now, so we might as well leverage the existing infrastructure to meet existing needs. Needs like connecting the northern ends of Line 1.

 

[Aplus23]

IO Market Update - October 2025

What a long way we have come. Time for the next batch of projects to make it to active procurement. Sheppard Extension, EGW LRT Airport Extension, Ontario Line North Extension, EG LRT East Extension

Projects in Planning Phase: Transit
Line 4 Extension (Sheppard East) Subway

https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/4aafd7/contentassets/b0d7b52ef00142eaa6652a4ed45d6f5b/market-update-oct-2025.pdf

These are all the projects I asked for. A complete network when complete. imo The Southern west part of the city needs a line too
.

 

[chrisw]

As I've said before, if there has ever been a ridership study that showed a Sheppard Subway was required or justified then it would be getting trotted out on this thread every chance the subway boosters got.

The TTC/City received the draft Initial Business Case (IBC) in May 2025, it's getting worked on.

 

[Northern Light]

"Yonge is a mix bag as to what is used as well where they are going"

I'm telling you guys here, this guy would be against the Yonge Subway too if it wasn't already built. An LRT on Sheppard is INSANE and the public does not want it. There were consultation events about the Sheppard Extension by Metrolinx and even more importantly, a town hall organized by three MPPs where they invited Metrolinx in November 2023, which this guy clearly missed or just ignored, because hundreds of residents showed up asking for a Subway. Drum thinks he knows better and that public opinion against LRTs is irrelevant, we should build them anyways just because *he* thinks it's a good idea for Sheppard. NO. Not interested.

I wouldn't be quite that hard on @drum118 he's very knowledgeable and has established that over a long period of time here.

But its also possible to be knowledgeable and incorrect, even where any facts you have are correct. All facts require some measure of context and interpretation to arrive at a useful conclusion.

As it so happens, I disagree with Drum here. But I say that respectfully. I don't think hundreds of residents having an opinion is really the sway factor on a multi-billion dollar project; that amounts to "I want it, but I want it, so give it to me"

But certainly, public opinion is 'a factor', its just not the only one, or the biggest, in my judgement.

I think the hard math supports it; but that is at some level, a subjective call based on what you think a reasonable number of riders per hour/per day/per year is; and what ROI, in what form, you expect from said investment.

As I've said before, if there has ever been a ridership study that showed a Sheppard Subway was required or justified then it would be getting trotted out on this thread every chance the subway boosters got.

This post then runs the opposite of the one above....... equally emotion-driven, rather than evidence based. That's not to suggest Voltz is wrong...........simply that his post doesn't make the case, other than to question whether the evidence is sufficient the other way.

****

In any event...........I was the first to tell people this line was moving ahead as heavy rail.........Ford's gov't is not the fastest mover.......(see Crosstown, amongst other examples) ...... but at this point....the wheels are still turning in that direction.

 

[Rainforest]

The idea to close the existing Sheppard subway in order to "save money" was clearly rhetorical / negotiation tactics.

Had the TTC actually closed the subway, they would have to allocate a monumental number of buses in order to carry the riders who used to be on the subway. That part of Sheppard gets congested during the peak period, the buses would move slowly, and thus even more buses needed. That's drivers' salaries, maintenance and repairt cost etc, hardly any savings.

To extend or not to extend? Arguments can go either way. On one hand, the temptation to create a fast crosstown route in the north. On the other hand, the massive construction costs.

It should be noted that term "justified" is partly subjective for the operation that receives a large subsidy. Are the midday and late-evening bus runs justified on routes that divert from a major arterial and serve some neighborhood? Those runs might carry as few as 3-5 riders per bus, and probably take a larger % in subsidy than the Sheppard subway.

 

[stfeinberg]

A high capacity line north of Bloor that moves people laterally is simply non-negotiable for Toronto's future. As I've said, when people experience Eglinton LRT for themselves they will instantly realize it is neither high capacity, nor is it pragmatic in any sense of the word. Eglinton will be an extremely slow line that will be plagued with delays due to sharing the road with vehicular traffic. LRT can work in quaint t2, t3 European cities, but not in North America. Many people will try to argue with me on this, but all I can respond with is: "Wait, and see for yourself."

 

[urbanclient]

A high capacity line north of Bloor that moves people laterally is simply non-negotiable for Toronto's future. As I've said, when people experience Eglinton LRT for themselves they will instantly realize it is neither high capacity, nor is it pragmatic in any sense of the word. Eglinton will be an extremely slow line that will be plagued with delays due to sharing the road with vehicular traffic. LRT can work in quaint t2, t3 European cities, but not in North America. Many people will try to argue with me on this, but all I can respond with is: "Wait, and see for yourself."

Seconded, I calculated the actual travel time to be around 50 minutes from Mount Dennis to Kennedy, much slower than the 38 minutes advertised. Assuming same speeds as Line 2 (which is already faster than Line 1), and 20 km/h or no traffic bus speeds on the surface section (Google Maps).

 

[stfeinberg]

Seconded, I calculated the actual travel time to be 50 minutes from Mount Dennis to Kennedy, much slower than the 38 minutes advertised. Assuming same speeds as Line 2 (which is already faster than Line 1), and no traffic car speeds on the surface section (Google Maps).

Now add in common Toronto mishaps like inclement weather, people driving onto the tracks, accidents at the intersection (where do most accidents happen?), etc. etc...

People are slowly going to wake up to the fact that the city spent 14 years building what is essentially the 512 St Clair streetcar, but worse in many respects because at least the senior and retired citizens I see on the 512 enjoy the slow and comfortable ride. I can't say the same for the people who are projected to make up the ridership of the Eglinton LRT.

 

[urbanclient]

Now add in common Toronto mishaps like inclement weather, people driving onto the tracks, accidents at the intersection (where do most accidents happen?), etc. etc...

People are slowly going to wake up to the fact that the city spent 14 years building what is essentially the 512 St Clair streetcar, but worse in many respects because at least the senior and retired citizens I see on the 512 enjoy the slow and comfortable ride. I can't say the same for the people who are projected to make up the ridership of the Eglinton LRT.

And they didn't even lie about "60% faster" (https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs/eglinton-crosstown-lrt). If you check on google maps how long it takes to travel between Mount Dennis LRT Station and Kennedy LRT Station, it takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes to make the trip or 75 minutes. 75 minutes via bus and/or Line 2 subway. Doing that trip in 46.25 minutes (ideal conditions), is in fact a 60% faster average speed than 75 minutes. They just probably could not do the math afterwards and somehow ended up with a 38 minute impossibility (https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/29212/eglinton-crosstown-light-rail-transit-line). To quote redditor steamed-apple_juice : "25 stations between Islington to Woodbine Station [Line 2] and the distance is about 19km,just like the Crosstown, and that route takes about 40 minutes."