[duty free]

Agreed but the NIMBYS would lose their minds if an overground extension was proposed east...dealing with them would delay things for a solid year or two..

Yeah that's unfortunately how things run here. Elevated rail is an important part of the urban fabric that makes cities great.

A lot of people live in a city, but don't really want to live in a city. I've lived in three cities very close to elevated rail (Berlin, Paris & Vancouver) and thought it was great every time.

Hopefully the Ontario Line will help change this perception of elevated rail in Toronto. Even the legacy system has plenty of elevated/trenched rail. It's fine for Rosedale & High Park residents, but not for North York & Scarborough residents. Apparently they're (ironically) above elevated rail.

 

[abovegrade]

Yeah that's unfortunately how things run here. Elevated rail is an important part of the urban fabric that makes cities great.

A lot of people live in a city, but don't really want to live in a city. I've lived in three cities very close to elevated rail (Berlin, Paris & Vancouver) and thought it was great every time.

Hopefully the Ontario Line will help change this perception of elevated rail in Toronto. Even the legacy system has plenty of elevated/trenched rail. It's fine for Rosedale & High Park residents, but not for North York & Scarborough residents. Apparently they're (ironically) above elevated rail.

I agree, I was just in Berlin for a month and many of the ubahn lines have elevated sections that cut right through the heart of the city. It's normalized to an extent in which it isn't in Toronto. Hopefully that will change.

 

[EnviroTO]

The Sheppard West extension should definitely head to the airport and hit the locations most likely to continue to intensify and which are already intensified or higher density employment.

- Runway Central - YZD major development
- Ancaster - Just south of the Hanger District, developable land south of Sheppard, and Wilson Village
- Downsview Village / Roding Park - Condos and Government Offices
- Falstaff / Uphill - Seriously underutilized Leon's lands and apartments along Jane
- Dixon Grove / Kingsview - Dixon Road towers in the park with intensification opportunities
- Bresler / Carlingview / Congress - Hotels and Convention Centres
- Pearson Airport - Obvious trip generator

 

[EnviroTO]

The Sheppard East extension, I'm really hoping that Metrolinx goes with Option 2B (i.e. connecting to Scarborough Centre as originally planned long back in the Environmental Assessment when the subway was first conceived and as it was in the official plan for years). That route makes far more sense from a starting condition and opportunities perspective.

By jogging south of Sheppard the route can hit:
- Agincourt moved south which would serve
----- the intersection of the CP and Stouffville Line... most high speed rail plans expect the line to run alongside this corridor
----- the south side of Sheppard which is far more development ready than the stable residential neighbourhood to the north
----- there are already condos to the southwest with many proposals around this railway intersection
- Glen Andrew / Scarborough Centre / Progress - The whole Progress Ave central area is a development opportunity plus it already has a decent critical mass of condos, offices, and obviously a large mall
- Woburn - Centennial College and apartment buildings already exist with many developable properties
- Seven Oaks - Hospital, apartment building, and a sea of parking lots asking for a parking garage and better land use
- UTSC - A university campus with 14 thousand plus students and growing.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Sheppard East extension, I'm really hoping that Metrolinx goes with Option 2B (i.e. connecting to Scarborough Centre as originally planned long back in the Environmental Assessment when the subway was first conceived and as it was in the official plan for years). That route makes far more sense from a starting condition and opportunities perspective.

By jogging south of Sheppard the route can hit:
- Agincourt moved south which would serve
----- the intersection of the CP and Stouffville Line... most high speed rail plans expect the line to run alongside this corridor
----- the south side of Sheppard which is far more development ready than the stable residential neighbourhood to the north
----- there are already condos to the southwest with many proposals around this railway intersection
- Glen Andrew / Scarborough Centre / Progress - The whole Progress Ave central area is a development opportunity plus it already has a decent critical mass of condos, offices, and obviously a large mall
- Woburn - Centennial College and apartment buildings already exist with many developable properties
- Seven Oaks - Hospital, apartment building, and a sea of parking lots asking for a parking garage and better land use
- UTSC - A university campus with 14 thousand plus students and growing.

View attachment 669797

What about the Toronto Zoo as the east terminal?

 

[PL1]

What about the Toronto Zoo as the east terminal?

I doubt it has the trips to require a subway

 

[Northern Light]

I doubt it has the trips to require a subway

There are only 5 terminal points that have potential based on existing or planned development, beyond (east of ) McCowan

Markham/Sheppard
Malvern
Centennial College - Progress
Centenary Hospital
UTSC

You can't hit all of those with any one routing, but you can hit 2 in one case and up to 4 in another.

Note that Morningside is only in the mix based on a potential subway yard location and for no other reason. However, if that were chosen, an extension to UTSC could be feasible.

The Zoo really doesn't serve a useful purpose based on usage numbers. It also entails a very expensive crossing of the Rouge River.

 

[JBR]

What about the Toronto Zoo as the east terminal?

Zoo would never be considered for a subway stop. Would have the lowest ridership of any station in the system. Zoo is only busy enough to open the overflow parking lot in June, July, August.
Even if they expanded the Zoo to be like the San Diego Zoo it still wouldn’t be enough to justify a subway.
I think Morningside is considered as Metrolinx might try to pouch Conlins Yard for the subway. I don’t think you can expand Line4 without at least a satellite yard in the east end somewhere. There’s only so many spots along the route you could put one unless it’s a big expensive underground one.

Side note:
I think there’s a fantasy map somewhere of Line4 heading along Sheppard to Kingston Rd and then over to PTC, but that won’t happen in the 2000’s, maybe in the 2100’s or 2200’s.

 

[81-717]

I doubt it has the trips to require a subway

Yeah, if Wonderland doesn't I doubt the zoo does, either.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

If the Toronto Zoo were the Line 4 eastern terminal, then the Durham Regional Transit buses could use it as their western terminal.

 

[Rainforest]

If the Toronto Zoo were the Line 4 eastern terminal, then the Durham Regional Transit buses could use it as their western terminal.

For Durham Transit, the most appealing destination is UTSC. Students who have no money for cars, or who haven't got drivers licenses, is a very important group of customers.

Although they will accept the Zoo as their terminus if Metrolinx chooses to send the subway there, DRT would probably prefer a network that allows their buses to serve UTSC, and then go to the subway interchange.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

For Durham Transit, the most appealing destination is UTSC. Students who have no money for cars, or who haven't got drivers licenses, is a very important group of customers.

Although they will accept the Zoo as their terminus if Metrolinx chooses to send the subway there, DRT would probably prefer a network that allows their buses to serve UTSC, and then go to the subway interchange.

When transferring between DRT and the TTC, the second part of your trip (the transfer) will be free, as long as you are within the two-hour window of your first tap.

Or... extend Line 4 into Durham itself.

 

[KhalilHeron]

i could only see the zoo having a subway station if it continued to pickering town centre. I hope that if a subway gets built to sheppard/morningside or UTSC, a new zoo route with improved stops and branding is created. The branding for the 86 at kennedy is cute but the bus stops at the zoo are pretty sad.

 

[Thaboss]

i could only see the zoo having a subway station if it continued to pickering town centre. I hope that if a subway gets built to sheppard/morningside or UTSC, a new zoo route with improved stops and branding is created. The branding for the 86 at kennedy is cute but the bus stops at the zoo are pretty sad.

Not sure I can see that happening in a looong looong time.

Especially with a planned brt and upgrades to the Lakeshore lines, I think pickering center is pretty well served as is.

 

[Towered]

Surely if a Sheppard subway extension goes as far east as Morningside, a last-mile shuttle bus to the zoo would more than suffice? The ride would be what, 10 to 15 minutes, tops?