[crs1026]

My answer is the same as 99.9% of the rest of the community, but the point is why does this scrutiny only apply to fans of certain vehicles but not others? And what did "those who tried" try, exactly? Did they really try to save a Hawker, and failed? HCRR has always saved plenty of vehicles decades before the Hawker retirement, and continued to do so long after the Hawkers were gone, so forgive me for not buying the excuse that of all things the Hawkers were the straw that broke the camel's back (as I've said before, I'll believe it when the T1s & TRs end up in the same situation).

fwiw I did reach out to the organization that owns 5707 to try to establish some sort of contact with them, but since I never heard back there's not much more I can do.

.No museum has the luxury of having so much space that they can assemble one of everything. Imagine how much room Rockwood would require to retain two of every TTC subway and PCC model,. Plus CLRV/ALRV. A garage big enough to hold one of every bus model that ever operated in the GTA would be quite large.

And while properties try to get by with things parked outdoors, this is not really a sustainable strategy - the elements take their toll, and things that were restored at great effort and expense eventually need another restoration.

Preservation has to be selective, the degree depends on how much money the operation can attract and whether it can build enough support infrastructure. Parking something in the weeds and letting it rot is not sustainable preservation. It takes a whole lot of volunteer effort. If you prefer to watch, or ride, or photograph, that's your choice....but don't expect others to take up your slack.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

My answer is the same as 99.9% of the rest of the community, but the point is why does this scrutiny only apply to fans of certain vehicles but not others? And what did "those who tried" try, exactly? Did they really try to save a Hawker, and failed? HCRR has always saved plenty of vehicles decades before the Hawker retirement, and continued to do so long after the Hawkers were gone, so forgive me for not buying the excuse that of all things the Hawkers were the straw that broke the camel's back (as I've said before, I'll believe it when the T1s & TRs end up in the same situation).

Said just like someone ignorant of the preservation community and not willing to give a shit, either.

You know how Halton County got most of their rolling stock? A lot of it - probably most, actually - was purchased by individuals or small groups, and then donated to the museum. Just like how a small group of people fought for a bought an LRC locomotive in order to save it. Preservation doesn't get handed to you.

There was a group of people who worked pretty damn hard to save the CLRVs and ALRVs. I wasn't one of them, but if they needed me to I would have happily supported their efforts. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean the effort didn't exist.

By the way - your fetishization of the loss of the Hawkers is growing quite old. Grow up.

Dan

 

[picard102]

This again? Can we get a seperate thread for complaints about a specific transit vehicle not being preserved?

 

[generalcanada]

I mean this is TTC "CATCH ALL"

 

[81-717]

No museum has the luxury of having so much space that they can assemble one of everything. Preservation has to be selective

Even then, the Hawkers should NOT be the lowest priority, is the point.

Imagine how much room Rockwood would require to retain two of every TTC subway and PCC model,. Plus CLRV/ALRV.

They do have one of every streetcar model (Witt, PCC, CLRV/ALRV, and almost certainly a Flexity 30 years from now).

Said just like someone ignorant of the preservation community

*the broader transitfan community (while some on here & cptdb may be involved in preservation or transit generally, I doubt they make up the majority of either forum's userbase).

There was a group of people who worked pretty damn hard to save the CLRVs and ALRVs. I wasn't one of them, but if they needed me to I would have happily supported their efforts. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean the effort didn't exist.

My question wasn't pertaining to the effort put into saving the C/ALRVs, I was wondering if any such effort was in fact put into saving the Hs, but was unsuccessful.

By the way - your fetishization of the loss of the Hawkers is growing quite old. Grow up.

Said as if the whole city wouldn't "fetishize" the loss of the G1s, trams, or designated historical buildings.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Ford government to give transit constables power to arrest

The Ford government plans to give special transit constables the power to make arrests as part of a crackdown on drug use on public transit.

toronto.citynews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-transit-constables-arrest-drug-use-9.7186586

Start with ironclad fare enforcement and you’ll push out most of the junkies.

 

[Mihairokov]

How will you ever make fare enforcement ironclad? It doesn't matter how many POOs stand in subway stations if I can board a streetcar literally anywhere and board without paying.

Extending enforcement (arrest) abilities to constables is a slippery slope.

Also, we have the Homelessness on TTC thread specifically for comments like this: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/homelessness-on-the-ttc-catch-all.37846/page-26

 

[zang]

Said as if the whole city wouldn't "fetishize" the loss of the G1s, trams, or designated historical buildings.

Imagine if there were one poster on the 1 Bloor West thread who decided to make hay over the loss of Stollery's Menswear and the unique architecture and history that building held. They would regularly proclaim that it was all a conspiracy against Stollery's because "they saved the 774 Yonge St facade". And then this poster continued repeating this nonsense over and over and over again, with every new alteration and revision making it even more grand a conspiracy, diverting conversations into the direction of said conspiracy whenever given the opportunity.

Something to ponder.

 

[smallspy]

Said as if the whole city wouldn't "fetishize" the loss of the G1s, trams, or designated historical buildings.

You really seem to have a loose grasp on reality, don't you?

You know that to 95% of the population these vehicles mean nothing other than a means of conveyance? That the fact that a museum even exists, nevermind may have one or two of them, is an utter and complete surprise?

If someone were to post as often as you do about the "loss of the G cars", than yeah, I (and others) would be accusing them of fetishization. Life didn't end when they were retired. Move on.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

How will you ever make fare enforcement ironclad? It doesn't matter how many POOs stand in subway stations if I can board a streetcar literally anywhere and board without paying.

They could start by the current policy of trying not to wake or disturb them ...

We've had POP now for 35 years - I think it's time to stop the hand-wringing here that it exists!

 

[81-717]

Imagine if there were one poster on the 1 Bloor West thread who decided to make hay over the loss of Stollery's Menswear and the unique architecture and history that building held. They would regularly proclaim that it was all a conspiracy against Stollery's because "they saved the 774 Yonge St facade". And then this poster continued repeating this nonsense over and over and over again, with every new alteration and revision making it even more grand a conspiracy, diverting conversations into the direction of said conspiracy whenever given the opportunity.

Something to ponder.

It's literally illegal to rebuild the exterior of, let alone outright demolish, certain ancient houses/buildings in old Toronto. This is beyond "one poster making hay over it on an online forum" (if one of those buildings were demolished, there'd probably be riots in the streets or something like that).

So if someone wanted to argue that there's a conspiracy against Stollery's because it wasn't legally protected from demolition while other vintage buildings are, they could have a case to make.

You know that to 95% of the population these vehicles mean nothing other than a means of conveyance?

Debatable, considering the alleged amount of head-turning & pulling out phones/cameras from the public everytime they happen to see a vintage tram without going out of their way to find it.

That the fact that a museum even exists, nevermind may have one or two of them, is an utter and complete surprise?

Hardly, considering how common it actually is (Montreal, Vancouver, NYC, Washington, Chicago, London, etc). It indeed seems more of an exception than the norm for something to be completely lost, and not be survived by anything identical elsewhere.

Life didn't end when they [Hs] were retired. Move on.

No, it didn't "end", it just went to shit. Not much better (arguably worse).

what the hell were they supposed to do, resurrect some H5s using black magic?

Actually yes, just like they resurrected #327 using black magic. Or, they should've had the sense to keep a couple in storage (like the H4s until 2019).

Man, I wish my life was so easy I could afford to care about shit like this.

 

[zang]

It's literally illegal to rebuild the exterior of, let alone outright demolish, certain ancient houses/buildings in old Toronto. This is beyond "one poster making hay over it on an online forum".

So if someone wanted to argue that there's a conspiracy against Stollery's because it wasn't legally protected from demolition while other vintage buildings are, they could have a case to make. And if one of those legally-protected buildings were demolished, there'd probably be riots in the streets or something like that.

Riots in the streets?! Stollery's was pending a heritage status decision, and while it did cause a few people on UT to be ticked off and even made news, it's certainly not anything that anyone has clung on to, proclaiming conspiracy, nor continued to repeat ad nauseam in that thread. And there certainly weren't riots.

And it wasn't demolished because of some conspiracy against it by (then) developer Mizrahi, it was purely about speed and financial reasons. Ascribing conspiracy to it, or further yet developing an obsession over it to the annoyance of others, would be worthy of great amounts of ridicule.

The fact of the matter is that nobody outside of a few transit wonks are going to care that Hawkers weren't kept. You're acting like a guy asking everyone they meet if they want to see their balkan state coin collection.

People moved on. You should too.

 

[Undead]

What a hill to die on

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Riots in the streets?! Stollery's was pending a heritage status decision, and while it did cause a few people on UT to be ticked off and even made news, it's certainly not anything that anyone has clung on to, proclaiming conspiracy, nor continued to repeat ad nauseam in that thread. And there certainly weren't riots.

I still kick myself for not taking advantage of their closing sales, as that store had a great selection of Aquascutum coats and jackets and were one of the last shops to carry mostly Canadian-made dress shirts.

 

[RapidTransit]

Ford government to give transit constables power to arrest

The Ford government plans to give special transit constables the power to make arrests as part of a crackdown on drug use on public transit.

toronto.citynews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-transit-constables-arrest-drug-use-9.7186586

Start with ironclad fare enforcement and you’ll push out most of the junkies.

Unfortunately it has to go through the TTC board before being implemented. And we know what the views are of this administration.

Probably all a temporary move for FIFA. once FIFA is over , I expect all this clamp down to be over as well