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The "silly" rules they have to follow. "Go slow" rules at intersections, "stop" at track switches, etc..
Dealing with traffic/pedestrians too. While the subway has lots of slow zones, it's less stressful/requires less mental energy to operate. This makes it more attractive to older operators looking for something more relaxing in their later years.
 
It is, actually. At least in part.

Streetcar ops feel that the organization is micromanaging them to a degree that is not felt elsewhere in the organization. All sorts of silly and arcane rules are a good part of it.

Dan

Dan,

Correct me if I am wrong but is the Streetcar system still under the Railway Act or did it get moved to the Highway Traffic Act?

If it is the Railway Act, that would explain the different rules and procedures. It would also explain why alot of operators don't want to get involved with them.
 
It is, actually. At least in part.

Streetcar ops feel that the organization is micromanaging them to a degree that is not felt elsewhere in the organization. All sorts of silly and arcane rules are a good part of it.

Dan
The micromanaging part is the main source of the frustrations, but sure we can say the stop and proceed/vehicle crowing through signalized intersections contributes to the micromanaging (aka through the SOPs- which are idiotic).
 
Dan,

Correct me if I am wrong but is the Streetcar system still under the Railway Act or did it get moved to the Highway Traffic Act?

If it is the Railway Act, that would explain the different rules and procedures. It would also explain why alot of operators don't want to get involved with them.
I don't think that streetcars have been covered by the Railway Act since the 1930s. They are covered by the Highway Traffic Act - sort of. Insofar as anyone operating a streetcar is expected to meet the same requirements as anyone operating any other registered motor vehicle in the Province of Ontario, and so is expected to operate it under the same rules and regulations.

The micromanaging part is the main source of the frustrations, but sure we can say the stop and proceed/vehicle crowing through signalized intersections contributes to the micromanaging (aka through the SOPs- which are idiotic).
Well, here's an example.....

There is a rule that all equipment must not exceed 10km/h when operating over any specialwork (specialwork defined as any specialized trackwork such as crossings and switches). And that rule is enforced by supervisors, sometimes using radar speed detectors at the side of the road, and sometimes by supervisors located within the CIS offices using the live VISION data. And there are numerous reports of operators getting hauled in for a talking to because of this.

Dan
 
There is a rule that all equipment must not exceed 10km/h when operating over any specialwork (specialwork defined as any specialized trackwork such as crossings and switches). And that rule is enforced by supervisors, sometimes using radar speed detectors at the side of the road, and sometimes by supervisors located within the CIS offices using the live VISION data. And there are numerous reports of operators getting hauled in for a talking to because of this.

Now that's the biggest steaming pile of bull**** that I've ever seen.

In some cases it's required, I get it. You dont want someone doing 60 kph through a switch if that switch is problematic.

Having said that, a recently replaced switch or clear crossing shouldn't require a slow order.

I'd be wearing that talking to as a badge of honor.
 
There is a rule that all equipment must not exceed 10km/h when operating over any specialwork (specialwork defined as any specialized trackwork such as crossings and switches). And that rule is enforced by supervisors, sometimes using radar speed detectors at the side of the road, and sometimes by supervisors located within the CIS offices using the live VISION data. And there are numerous reports of operators getting hauled in for a talking to because of this.

Dan
It's really absolute lunacy.

Meanwhile we have supervisors who are unable to adequately ensure proper vehicle separation around various routes around the city even when they are "actively" supervising a given route, but they worry themselves about archaic and empty-headed rules instituted by TTC management which make absolutely no sense.

Frankly their needs to be full scale changes in management. They reaped what they sowed, and now both the TTC and riders are paying for management stupidity.

I'd love to see their explanation for this in the public domain for how X amount of multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are sitting idle and wasted because they cant find operators to run the streetcars. No doubt they would come out with the BS to the nature of "we're actively recruiting for new operators".
 
It's really absolute lunacy.

Meanwhile we have supervisors who can are unable to adequately ensure proper vehicle separation around various routes around the city even when they are "actively" supervising a given route, but they worry themselves about archaic and empty-headed rules instituted by TTC management which make absolutely no sense.

Frankly their needs to be full scale changes in management. They reaped what they sowed, and now both the TTC and riders are paying for management stupidity.

I'd love to see their explanation for this in the public domain for how X amount of multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are sitting idle and wasted because they cant find operators to run the streetcars. No doubt they would come out with the BS to the nature of "we're actively recruiting for new operators".
And increase the operations budget and update the streetcar infrastructure to European standards, so they can operate properly. Don't follow the American standards or 20th century standards.
 
It's really absolute lunacy.

Meanwhile we have supervisors who are unable to adequately ensure proper vehicle separation around various routes around the city even when they are "actively" supervising a given route, but they worry themselves about archaic and empty-headed rules instituted by TTC management which make absolutely no sense.

Frankly their needs to be full scale changes in management. They reaped what they sowed, and now both the TTC and riders are paying for management stupidity.

I'd love to see their explanation for this in the public domain for how X amount of multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are sitting idle and wasted because they cant find operators to run the streetcars. No doubt they would come out with the BS to the nature of "we're actively recruiting for new operators".
TTC management cannot get the correct route numbers onto stops nor remove temporary diversion stop signage nor remove stops for the (obviously discontinued) Express 14X series of routes. These are easy things that take little skill to achieve, we clearly cannot expect them to deal with route management, switches and scary stuff like that.
 
There is a rule that all equipment must not exceed 10km/h when operating over any specialwork (specialwork defined as any specialized trackwork such as crossings and switches). And that rule is enforced by supervisors, sometimes using radar speed detectors at the side of the road, and sometimes by supervisors located within the CIS offices using the live VISION data. And there are numerous reports of operators getting hauled in for a talking to because of this.

On the topic of speed limits: can you tell me why streetcars must crawl through the King Street West tunnel between Sudbury & Atlantic?
 
On the topic of speed limits: can you tell me why streetcars must crawl through the King Street West tunnel between Sudbury & Atlantic?
Pre-rebuild of the underpass, the difference in the height of the wire on either side was so extreme (and the slope connecting them so steep) that at high speeds the pole could (and would) bounce off of the wire and dewire. In extreme cases, it could knock the shoe off.

Post-rebuild? I don't honestly know. The wire is not close to the minimum of the pantographs and the slopes leading in and out aren't quite as steep as they used to be, so it may be as simple as "we forgot".

Dan
 
Pre-rebuild of the underpass, the difference in the height of the wire on either side was so extreme (and the slope connecting them so steep) that at high speeds the pole could (and would) bounce off of the wire and dewire. In extreme cases, it could knock the shoe off.

Post-rebuild? I don't honestly know. The wire is not close to the minimum of the pantographs and the slopes leading in and out aren't quite as steep as they used to be, so it may be as simple as "we forgot".

Dan
This seems to me to be the most likely explanation (and @smallspy always brings good and useful information). The TTC has a very poor memory of why things are done and an apparent inability to investigate. It always reminds me of the UK army's investigation (in the 1970s, I think) on the staffing of the teams manning large portable guns. There were two people there who appeared to have no purpose. It turned out that they had been on these teams to hold the heads of the horses to stop them bolting when the guns were fired. When the use of horses was phased out many years earlier, nobody had thought they might not be needed!
 
Pre-rebuild of the underpass, the difference in the height of the wire on either side was so extreme (and the slope connecting them so steep) that at high speeds the pole could (and would) bounce off of the wire and dewire. In extreme cases, it could knock the shoe off.

Post-rebuild? I don't honestly know. The wire is not close to the minimum of the pantographs and the slopes leading in and out aren't quite as steep as they used to be, so it may be as simple as "we forgot".

Dan
That underpass was rebuilt a couple of decades ago to create more height for the streetcar. Many trucks also got stuck there. Still a low ceiling. Flooding remains an issue. In fact, the whole area between Dufferin and Shaw continues to have problems. Hence, all the construction in the area.

1755870900089.png
 

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