[Amare]

Honestly I have to agree that H4 style and NYC style seats are the better option for transit in terms of being easy to clean (and in NYC's case, vandalproof). They might as well switch to NYC seats, not like the current ones are significantly more comfortable anyway.


The original H5/6 seating was basically the same as the H4 in terms of seat covering, but without benches.


And how is the current cloth fabric any less of a fire hazard (if not more so)?

The H4 seating had seat padding that was a lot thicker compared to the H5 and H6s.

I dont recall the H4s seating having significant problems with puncturing, tears, holes, etc. The original H5 and H6 seats had scratch and tears because people would deliberately do damage to those seats. Miissussauga transit had similar seats to the H5/H6s installed in their buses before, but those were in worst shape compared to the TTCs because the TTC maintained those seats much better.

The fact of the matter is, the TTC is doing this because of costs/easier maintenance. They can try and sugar coat it and disguise it under whatever BS they want to, because most riders would agree that fabric seats are much more comfortable and I'm willing to bet the survey they conducted earlier said it. The issue riders have with the fabric seats is the level of cleanliness of them, and that boils down to cleaning standards/practices. Something that has taken a big hit throughout the years at the TTC.

 

[T3G]

I'm going to disagree that the current fabric seats are in any way comfortable, so I don't view this as a big loss.

I don't usually tend to sit on the TTC, due to being a germophobe, but not wanting to advertise that to friends and acquaintances I sit if they sit. About a month ago I sat on the subway for the first time in several years, and my back hurt for two days after. If they want comfort, bring back the H4 benches!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The fact of the matter is, the TTC is doing this because of costs/easier maintenance. They can try and sugar coat it and disguise it under whatever BS they want to, because most riders would agree that fabric seats are much more comfortable and I'm willing to bet the survey they conducted earlier said it. The issue riders have with the fabric seats is the level of cleanliness of them, and that boils down to cleaning standards/practices. Something that has taken a big hit throughout the years at the TTC.

And there is nothing wrong with that, considering the constraints. In any case, any notion of comfort could easily dispelled after you had accidentally sat on a urine (or lord knows what other bodily-fluids) soaked felt seat.

AoD

 

[APTA-2048]

And there is nothing wrong with that, considering the constraints. In any case, any notion of comfort could easily dispelled after you had accidentally sat on a urine (or lord knows what other bodily-fluids) soaked felt seat.

AoD

It’s not like a plastic seat would be dry either, though.

 

[PL1]

It’s not like a plastic seat would be dry either, though.

I much prefer the cloth seats. However, some spills are not visible on the cloth seats

 

[Amare]

And there is nothing wrong with that, considering the constraints. In any case, any notion of comfort could easily dispelled after you had accidentally sat on a urine (or lord knows what other bodily-fluids) soaked felt seat.

AoD

I'm not necessarily sure we can call them constraints, the TTC outsourced cleaning for the past ~5+ years on vehicles. As part of the new contract that was made between the TTC and city last year, some cleaning jobs have been brought back in house to the TTC.

The TTC staff were very confident that they could do the job better than what we've seen in the past 5 years, so they should go ahead and prove that they can.

And to add, i've seen plenty of plastic seats which have been heavily stained by urine and who knows what else. Good luck cleaning it off, because it's almost just as hard/if not harder. Essentially, those seats have to be replaced (just like the fabric seats have been when they are heavily stained/damaged).

 

[PL1]

And to add, i've seen plenty of plastic seats which have been heavily stained by urine and who knows what else. Good luck cleaning it off, because it's almost just as hard/if not harder. Essentially, those seats have to be replaced (just like the fabric seats have been when they are heavily stained/damaged).

(My emphasis)

I disagree. I work in healthcare. Non-absorbent surfaces are absolutely able to be cleaned and sanitized. We cannot have absorbent surfaces (including wood and cloth) at work.

 

[Amare]

(My emphasis)

I disagree. I work in healthcare. Non-absorbent surfaces are absolutely able to be cleaned and sanitized. We cannot have absorbent surfaces (including wood and cloth) at work.

I dont disagree that fabric is harder to clean then plastic. I'm simply referring to when both are already very heavily stained.

 

[Northern Light]

On Seating, while fabric is preferable, vinyl can be acceptable; hard plastic is not.

I understand the challenges with fabric, though would note its fairly normative for GO Train seating, Coach buses and Airlines.

To me, the hygiene argument, while relevant (I'm a marginal germaphobe) is too much of an excuse for under-funding cleaning operations.

I would also add, there is a circular chicken-egg thing.......if an environment looks like it demands care, and it receives care, then people tend to take more care with it.

If it looks crap, and is maintained poorly, people tend to treat it with less care.

With some eye to practicality I'd rather aspire to raise the bar than to lower it.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I dont disagree that fabric is harder to clean then plastic. I'm simply referring to when both are already very heavily stained.

The plastic seats would be more vulnerable to magic marker graffiti. The fabric seats are harder to write on.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It’s not like a plastic seat would be dry either, though.

Like @PL1 has said - you couldn't necessarily tell. And honestly, I doubt the TTC even do that much seat cleaning in the best of days; and that's with easy to clean (mop and wipe) vinyl seating way back when. Compare and contrast to these felt seating - you can't possible clean them much in-situ quickly and/or without specialized equipment (like steam cleaners).

AoD

 

[picard102]

I'm going to disagree that the current fabric seats are in any way comfortable, so I don't view this as a big loss.

I don't usually tend to sit on the TTC, due to being a germophobe, but not wanting to advertise that to friends and acquaintances I sit if they sit. About a month ago I sat on the subway for the first time in several years, and my back hurt for two days after. If they want comfort, bring back the H4 benches!

How on earth does sitting on the subway end up injuring your back for two days? You might want to see a doctor.

 

[APTA-2048]

To me, the hygiene argument, while relevant (I'm a marginal germaphobe) is too much of an excuse for under-funding cleaning operations.

I would also add, there is a circular chicken-egg thing.......if an environment looks like it demands care, and it receives care, then people tend to take more care with it.

Emphasizing this.

Some people seem to be way too paranoid. Might as well not sit down anywhere in public.

 

[PL1]

Emphasizing this.

Some people seem to be way too paranoid. Might as well not sit down anywhere in public.

Yes, and despite my recent comment about the ability of plastic to be sterilized, I prefer the textured cloth seats. (I am not a germophobe)

 

[81-717]

It’s not like a plastic seat would be dry either, though.

The point is that plastic (or vinyl/leather) doesn't absorb fluids like cloth does, and thus easier to clean and easier not to accidentally sit on a dirty seat because it "looked" clean(ish)