[81-717]

Comfort is a key concern, unapologetically.

Then how is fabric in any way preferable to vinyl (as far as comfort goes)? It is both harder and more absorbent, so that's a no-win.

I don't find NYC subway seats to be ugly, the R46 seats on the other hand look quite cool, nor do I find the T1/TR seats to be anything noteworthy aesthetically.

 

[ARG1]

What do you find so ridiculous about the notion that an uncomfortable seat could make one's back sore?

Anyway to weigh in on the comfort discussion, I don't think big city transit agencies can even pretend to be comfortable until there is no reasonable possibility of sitting on a urine-soaked or bedbug ridden chair. And especially not buses, which even if they had clouds for seats would still punch your brain out over every hole in the road. The bus network does a good enough job giving off low class vibes even without plastic seats.

N. B. So do GO's double deckers. Only their older MCIs can claim to be a comfortable form of transit.

To add to this, I want to point out that when I visited NYC back in 2022, I virtually never sat down on the subway unless my legs were really tired. Simply put, it was genuinely painful to sit on for longer periods of time, and I would sometimes leave the train with jelly legs because of the reduced bloodflow. Like, anything but plastic seats please.

 

[81-717]

What do you find so ridiculous about the notion that an uncomfortable seat could make one's back sore?

My back is often sore after biking or driving for more than about an hour

 

[Northern Light]

Then how is fabric in any way preferable to vinyl (as far as comfort goes)?

It doesn't stick to your skin if you're sweaty/clammy/damp

Vinyl does.

It is both harder

Fabric can be quite soft, now, no one is advocating for suede, but there are certainly softer fabrics that can be procured.

and more absorbent,

My couch is fabric, it was treated with stain guard, I have no stains on it. Now, I don't spill on it much at all, but the odd time............

No problem, its a quick wipe with damp cloth, anything and everything comes off, including red wine.

No reason w/the right weave and treatment that you can't have a very liquid repellent fabric.

I don't find NYC subway seats to be ugly, the R46 seats on the other hand look quite cool, nor do I find the T1/TR seats to be anything noteworthy aesthetically.

I do.

I don't like the cattlecar arrangement either. and as @ARG1 notes above, they are quite uncomfortable.

 

[81-717]

It doesn't stick to your skin if your sweaty/clammy/damp

Vinyl does.

As opposed to absorbing your sweat? And how would it stick to your skin through your clothes (which the vast majority of riders would be wearing)?

Fabric can be quite soft, now, no one is advocating for suede, but there are certainly softer fabrics that can be procured.

The fabric in question (TTC) doesn't fall under that category.

I don't like the cattlecar arrangement either.

The R46s have almost the exact same seating arrangement as the TTC.

 

[Northern Light]

As opposed to absorbing your sweat? And how would it stick to your skin through your clothes (which the vast majority of riders would be wearing)?

Answered in the post you're quoting.

The fabric in question (TTC) doesn't fall under that category.

Also answered, there are other fabrics, not only one in the world.

The R46s have almost the exact same seating arrangement as the TTC.

Fair point, I was reflexively thinking of the more common layout on NYC cars.

 

[picard102]

What do you find so ridiculous about the notion that an uncomfortable seat could make one's back sore?

I find it ridiculous that the seats are so uncomfortable to cause multi day pain without their being some other unsaid medical factor.

 

[ARG1]

I find it ridiculous that the seats are so uncomfortable to cause multi day pain without their being some other unsaid medical factor.

That doesn't mean we can't be accommodating, especially on longer routes (like Lines 1/2). Even if we accept the idea that pain from plastic seating is caused by medical factors on the user's side, may I remind you that this is public transportation, meant to be used by everyone from your young and active freshman high school student, to an aging 75y/o grandpa whose legs are about to give way. Its especially important in the latter case since the people who need seats the most are often folks that have some medical conditions and don't have the energy to stand around all day.

 

[picard102]

That doesn't mean we can't be accommodating, especially on longer routes (like Lines 1/2). Even if we accept the idea that pain from plastic seating is caused by medical factors on the user's side, may I remind you that this is public transportation, meant to be used by everyone from your young and active freshman high school student, to an aging 75y/o grandpa whose legs are about to give way. Its especially important in the latter case since the people who need seats the most are often folks that have some medical conditions and don't have the energy to stand around all day.

I'm not some 20 year old with perfect mobility and health. Comfortable seats, like the ones on the TR and T1, are what enable many people to continue to use the TTC.

 

[DSCToronto]

The King Station TTC project page is a mess of information and confusing photos! https://cdn.ttc.ca/-/media/Project/...---Pre-Construction-Community-Update-2025.pdf

Here is the Notice re Melinda https://www.ttc.ca/service-advisories/construction-notices/King-Station---Melinda-exit-closure

 

[evandyk]

• All exit/entrance points other than the exit/entrance to Melinda exit will remain open throughout duration.

What does this even mean? Did anyone proof-read this?

 

[Richard White]

• All exit/entrance points other than the exit/entrance to Melinda exit will remain open throughout duration.

What does this even mean? Did anyone proof-read this?

I am thinking Jean Chretien proof read it.

 

[81-717]

I find it ridiculous that the seats are so uncomfortable to cause multi day pain without their being some other unsaid medical factor.

I'm not some 20 year old with perfect mobility and health. Comfortable seats, like the ones on the TR and T1, are what enable many people to continue to use the TTC.

I find it ridiculous that some would actually argue the current fabric seats are more comfortable than vinyl or bench seats, using some far-fetched excuses like "seats sticking to your backside" (if you're wearing clothes, and the seats still stick to you, that means your clothes are stuck as well and you probably should be more concerned about that). Guess now we know the real reason vinyl seats would get torn is not because of vandalism, but because of people trying to get up and "accidentally" tearing the vinyl because it got stuck to their backside and wouldn't let go /s.

Also, many people find the R46 seats more comfortable than the R160 seats not only because of the seating arrangement, but also because of the "bucket" seats (which should also address the back pain issue to some extent).

 

[hw621]

Don't know where else to put this, so I'll leave it here...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932429117732852090

 

[duffo]

Don't know where else to put this, so I'll leave it here...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1932429117732852090

Amount of underground subway (heavy rail) added between 2000 and 2025:

• TTC: 14.1km
• LA Metro: 0km