[DSCToronto]

I don't know if @smallspy or one our engineers might have insights, but I have a couple of questions around structural works I've seen in the subway lately.

First, Main Station:

Some of the old vertical beans and/or their cross-braces have been replaced by new metal supports. I don't recall seeing these used before in a station.

I'm curious as to the nature of the work, whether these are the new permanent supports and if so, why not the traditional beams? Also, is the TTC going to paint them black to match?

View attachment 629197

To my untutored eye they do not look like structural supports, more like supports for the 'wiring trellis' that is at Line 1 stations like King (I assume for ATC). As ATC is eventually coming to Line 2, could this be the precursor?

 

[turbanplanner]

What's the word to describe someone who makes up stories about fictitious riots and threats at black protests?

Montreal arrests more than that and have more damage anytime the Canadians make the Stanley Cup final. It's normally worse when they win.

Was there much protesting on the TTC?

I’m not the one who started that conversation (that was North yorker) I just wanted to point out the police, as well as the businesses thought there was enough of a threat to justify some action.

The new leader of the liberal party promised she would make transit more safe, out of all the things going on if that’s something she mentions I feel like it’s on a lot of people’s minds!

 

[81-717]

The funding is not in limbo.

Yes, I'm sure.

The tender closes January 28th, 2025.

There is zero chance a new government is sworn in prior to that.

Sure a new government could, in theory, legislate a legal tender as moot and compensate the winner.............in the real world.........this is very unlikely to happen. This is not a controversial project.

So the deadline has passed. Has the tender been closed? Or called off? Have the feds actually signed the funding contract, beyond just "promising to commit funding"? Munro mentioned that if the government changes before the current government signs the contract, it'll never see the light of day, and that a new government scrapping the PTF isn't that unlikely.

 

[Northern Light]

So the deadline has passed. Has the tender been closed?

Yes.

But it hasn't been awarded yet. Closed means no more submissions are allowed.

Now Commission staff have to review the bids for compliance, and any stated exceptions to tender criteria, then, assuming the bids came within budget, they would, normally, go to a Commission meeting for approval unless the CEO has specific, delegated authority.

Or called off?

No.

Have the feds actually signed the funding contract, beyond just "promising to commit funding"?

Don't know.

Munro mentioned that if the government changes before the current government signs the contract, it'll never see the light of day, and that a new government scrapping the PTF isn't that unlikely.

Always possible and have great respect for Steve, but disagree here.

 

[nfitz]

Always possible and have great respect for Steve, but disagree here.

Another factor is that the earliest election date is currently May 5, 2025 (unless something dramatic happens and Parliament is recalled). So no new PM until mid-May.

Over 3 months

 

[bearcat]

I don't know if @smallspy or one our engineers might have insights, but I have a couple of questions around structural works I've seen in the subway lately.

First, Main Station:

Some of the old vertical beans and/or their cross-braces have been replaced by new metal supports. I don't recall seeing these used before in a station.

I'm curious as to the nature of the work, whether these are the new permanent supports and if so, why not the traditional beams? Also, is the TTC going to paint them black to match?

View attachment 629197

Are you sure these new metal supports are replacing something? I noticed these back in December as well, and I thought they were extra supports and not a replacement for something that was there before. To me it looked like emergency measures to support whatever is above that is perhaps sagging or cracking, but I am no engineer. It would be nice if someone has some phots of these part of the station from a few years ago to see if these replace empty space or there were vertical beams there before.

See another photo of these from December:

EDIT: I see @DSCToronto replied above, and his reasoning makes sense to me.

However for something permanent the do look incredibly ugly.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Are you sure these new metal supports are replacing something? I noticed these back in December as well, and I thought they were extra supports and not a replacement for something that was there before. To me it looked like emergency measures to support whatever is above that is perhaps sagging or cracking, but I am no engineer. It would be nice if someone has some phots of these part of the station from a few years ago to see if these replace empty space or there were vertical beams there before.

See another photo of these from December:

View attachment 629294

EDIT: I see @DSCToronto replied above, and his reasoning makes sense to me.

However for something permanent the do look incredibly ugly.

They are supports to carry signals and communication wires nothing structure. There was nothing in place there before. I'm not relly sure what you think they are supposed to look like to not look "ugly" They only just started adding them during the most recent closure which is why you haven't seen them before. Those types of supports would in no way be used to support something structure in a subway station.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Second question around structure.

I've been watching the evolving work at Spadina station on the streetcar platform concourse.

My pics from January 31st, 2025:

View attachment 629198

View attachment 629199

I examined these from several angles....... I couldn't ascertain they were actually supporting anything. In most locations they don't touch the ceiling, but where they appear to, I don't see any beams or key structure. I assume I'm missing something, but was just curious if others had insights.

what's the location of this picture other than you saying in Spadia station that doesn't give any context to what you are trying to show us.

 

[bearcat]

They are supports to carry signals and communication wires nothing structure. There was nothing in place there before. I'm not relly sure what you think they are supposed to look like to not look "ugly" They only just started adding them during the most recent closure which is why you haven't seen them before. Those types of supports would in no way be used to support something structure in a subway station.

I apologize my common sense when it comes to structural engineering is lacking apparently.

It's completely subjective obviously if something looks ugly, but they have this "temporary" look to them, as if they were not designed for the purpose or to fit in with the design of the rest of the station, and were just made from whatever off the shelf components are available. Perhaps doing it this may is much cheaper, then I guess it's fine. In that case, as mentioned by @Northern Light , painting them black would be a start.

I am just in general disappointed with how little care seems to be put into TTC improvement projects. Maybe I am generalizing too much, but for example this was Museum Station second entrance in November of last year, about half a year after it opened:

The main sign with the station name at that entrance was still attached with zip ties.

 

[Northern Light]

what's the location of this picture other than you saying in Spadia station that doesn't give any context to what you are trying to show us.

The entire context is there, its Spadina station on the level of the streetcar platform.

How much more specific can I be?

I made a specific observation as well, that the support beams don't actually appear to be supporting much of anything.

Thereafter I asked those w/engineering knowledge to let me/us know why this appears to be the way it is.....

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The entire context is there, its Spadina station on the level of the streetcar platform.

How much more specific can I be?

I made a specific observation as well, that the support beams don't actually appear to be supporting much of anything.

Thereafter I asked those w/engineering knowledge to let me/us know why this appears to be the way it is.....

How about something that shows the location of it. I wouldn't except anyone to be able to tell anything from random pictures with out an exact location.

 

[Northern Light]

How about something that shows the location of it. I wouldn't except anyone to be able to tell anything from random pictures with out an exact location.

I gave you the exact location, twice now.

I have no idea what you're on about.

 

[bearcat]

How about something that shows the location of it. I wouldn't except anyone to be able to tell anything from random pictures with out an exact location.

I think it's the ceiling here, the ceiling at the streetcar level after you come up from Line 2 (see this old photo):

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I think it's the ceiling here, the ceiling at the streetcar level after you come up from Line 2 (see this old photo):

View attachment 629311

If I were to guess, somehow those support beams are related to the escalator modernization project. They aren't supporting anything yet, but probably will be. Do they extend over the escalators? Perhaps a support for some sort of crane/lift they'll need for demolition looking at those parallel rails

From the official project description:
"Replacing each escalator involves the demolition of the existing escalator and accessories, installation of the new escalators, and installation of escalator controllers and related infrastructure. The scope requires extensive repairs to the building structure around the escalators, and a new electrical supply."

 

[smallspy]

I don't know if @smallspy or one our engineers might have insights, but I have a couple of questions around structural works I've seen in the subway lately.

First, Main Station:

Some of the old vertical beans and/or their cross-braces have been replaced by new metal supports. I don't recall seeing these used before in a station.

I'm curious as to the nature of the work, whether these are the new permanent supports and if so, why not the traditional beams? Also, is the TTC going to paint them black to match?

View attachment 629197

These appear to be structural per se - but certainly not structural to the level of being able to support the station.

I wonder if some of the work going on up topside introduced some forces that loosened the concrete ceiling panels above the gore between the tracks. That is about all those beams could support.

Dan