[evandyk]

Anyways, I have no actual information. I just relayed the chatter from the biggest St. Lawrence neighbourhood facebook group

 

[Admiral Beez]

Sigh... my daughter just texted that she's on the subway at Finch for the ride to College, and some nutter jumps onto the tracks, flaying about and shouting before walking down the tunnel. Now they're announcing no service from Finch to Sheppard, with the lights turned off, presumably to protect our wandering chap from electrocution. She's safe, sitting with a huddle of women on the train, waiting for the all clear or exit for the buses call.

 

[evandyk]

Same as this morning... luckily the weather was nice enough to bike my son to school. Though looking at their twitter, there wasn't actually a line shutdown. Hope your daughter made it home safe!

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Sigh... my daughter just texted that she's on the subway at Finch for the ride to College, and some nutter jumps onto the tracks, flaying about and shouting before walking down the tunnel. Now they're announcing no service from Finch to Sheppard, with the lights turned off, presumably to protect our wandering chap from electrocution. She's safe, sitting with a huddle of women on the train, waiting for the all clear or exit for the buses call.

Platform screen doors? No, money is more important than lives according to the fiscal conservatives.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Platform screen doors? No, money is more important than lives according to the fiscal conservatives.

This country, province and city has been governed by big spenders forever. No fiscal conservatives anywhere I've seen.

 

[gabe]

Sigh... my daughter just texted that she's on the subway at Finch for the ride to College, and some nutter jumps onto the tracks, flaying about and shouting before walking down the tunnel. Now they're announcing no service from Finch to Sheppard, with the lights turned off, presumably to protect our wandering chap from electrocution. She's safe, sitting with a huddle of women on the train, waiting for the all clear or exit for the buses call.

The worst part about getting a shuttle bus when the station is closed, is nobody knows what a lineup is these days. They just form a crowd on the curb and shove people out of the way to get on the bus.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The worst part about getting a shuttle bus when the station is closed, is nobody knows what a lineup is these days. They just form a crowd on the curb and shove people out of the way to get on the bus.

If there already was a parallel bus route to the subway to handle inaccessible stations, due to maintenance or mischief, there would be a "shuttle" bus present, until additional shuttle buses arrive along the route.

 

[zang]

This country, province and city has been governed by big spenders forever. No fiscal conservatives anywhere I've seen.

Rob Ford, John Tory, famous “big spenders”.

 

[Undead]

Big spender indeed:

2022:

What you need to know: 7 highlights from Ontario’s largest spending budget in history

Ontario Finance Minister Peter Bethlenfalvy has introduced a Tory blue budget — awash in red ink. Here are some highlights of the record $198.6 billion fiscal plan.

www.thestar.com

"The $198.6-billion spending plan is by far the largest in Ontario history — 25 per cent higher than former Liberal premier Kathleen Wynne’s final $158.5-billion budget in 2018."

2024:

Ford government tables $214.5B spending budget, largest in Ontario history, as deficit grows to $9.8B

The Ford government has tabled the largest spending budget in Ontario history at $214.5 billion. The deficit is projected to grow dramatically this year to $9.8 billion.

toronto.citynews.ca

"The Ford government has tabled the largest spending budget in Ontario history at $214.5 billion."

And as you know the City can't spend big even if they wanted to because of how the relevant provincial legislation is set up.

 

[SubHuman]

... and some nutter jumps onto the tracks, flaying about and shouting before walking down the tunnel. Now they're announcing no service from Finch to Sheppard, with the lights turned off, presumably to protect our wandering chap from electrocution...

Platform screen doors?..

Why would spending billions of dollars ("platform edge door system for Lines 1, 2 and 4 is estimated at $4.1 billion") on that somehow be the first idea?
As I've pointed out here before, the number of these reported track trespasser incidents has increased from 110 in 2018 to 711 in 2024. Does it seem likely that it might be a new person doing this for the first time, all 711 times?
"TTC spokesperson Stuart Green said while individual offenders aren’t tracked". Why not?
""... and the hospital keeps releasing them,” the entry says."
How about having them institutionalized after they do it the first time? Who or what is being helped by releasing people so mentally unsound and incredibly dangerous to themselves to keep doing it again and again?
I'm trying to imagine what kind of misguided argument could possibly defend this situation. "Putting them in an institution would be a mean and unfair thing to do to them"? As opposed to letting them out to keep doing it, until they get killed by a train (and maybe run over 13 times before anyone notices)?

 

[zang]

Literally millions upon millions of people use the TTC and don't jump on the tracks and wander into the tunnels. Why spend millions to protect lunatics who ought to be in an institution some where? Why do those wraiths have more rights than millions of other TTC users, who probably paid their fares!?

Aside from the use of an abhorrent terms like “lunatics” and “wraiths” for those with mental health problems, platform doors do a lot more than you imply.

They bring down noise and pollution levels at the platform, and of course, prevent suicide-by-train; a traumatic experience for drivers and witnesses.

Ever been to Sherbourne station when a train is coming in? Trains cause enough air pressure change to blow the ground level station doors open. I’ve seen people caught off guard and nearly lose footing using the stairs to/from street level. This isn’t the only station where this massive pressure change can happen. Platform doors should dramatically reduce the piston effect of the trains on the station itself and force more airflow into the tunnel ahead of the train.

 

[Mihairokov]

Can't imagine spending each waking moment of my day thinking about the homeless and mentally unwell in the way that some users here do. Get a grip, not every thread is a soapbox to complain about people you don't like. Anecdotes of how you feel work better on Facebook.

 

[zang]

Why would spending billions of dollars ("platform edge door system for Lines 1, 2 and 4 is estimated at $4.1 billion") on that somehow be the first idea?
As I've pointed out here before, the number of these reported track trespasser incidents has increased from 110 in 2018 to 711 in 2024. Does it seem likely that it might be a new person doing this for the first time, all 711 times?

Does it seem likely that one person is responsible for all 711 times?

Since 2018, and until recently, we saw staffing cut at stations dramatically. It was common for me (a frequent user of Yonge-Bloor station) to see zero staff when entering past the main booths. So, no gatekeeping of fare jumpers and those who might otherwise look likely to cause a problem.

All that aside, there are known, reported declines in average mental health since 2018. The pandemic lockdowns, an ever growing affordability crisis, and ever-increasing costs to treating mental health contribute greatly to that increase.

"TTC spokesperson Stuart Green said while individual offenders aren’t tracked". Why not?
""... and the hospital keeps releasing them,” the entry says."

Because they're often sent to the emergency rooms of already overburdened hospitals.

How about having them institutionalized after they do it the first time? Who or what is being helped by releasing people so mentally unsound and incredibly dangerous to themselves to keep doing it again and again?

There's a reason western nations collectively got rid of widespread institutionalization in the mental health field. It's not exactly cost-effective, creates a system rife for patient abuse and has often leaned heavily on barbaric treatment.

Should we have more hospitals dedicated strictly to mental health, and way, way more support for people with mental illness? Hell yeah. But forced institutionalization isn't the answer.

I have an ex-girlfriend who was diagnosed with schizophrenia in her late teens. On her meds, she is a smart, exceptionally capable woman who works and contributes greatly as a volunteer in the mental health community and services for women suffering from domestic violence.

Prior to diagnosis and unmedicated she was found walking naked down the middle of Haight Street in San Francisco. During one mental health crisis, she actively hit and fought with anyone who was trying to get her help as she believed just passing through her apartment door would lead to the world ending. The latter incident happened post-diagnosis, more than a year after she'd spent a month of forced stay in a psychiatric hospital. She thought she'd already taken a dose of her anti-psychotics one day and was wrong. Missing one dose is all it can take to shift the balance of brain chemistry enough to eventually lead to a relapse.

It was literally night and day between the two. Should she have been forcibly institutionalized for a week? a month? six months? The rest of her life? Or would a proper treatment plan and supports ensuring her meds are taken in her own home environment have worked better?

Oh, and we're not exactly leading the world in mental health spending, and Ontario alone fares worse than our pitiful national average.

I'm trying to imagine what kind of misguided argument could possibly defend this situation. "Putting them in an institution would be a mean and unfair thing to do to them"? As opposed to letting them out to keep doing it, until they get killed by a train (and maybe run over 13 times before anyone notices)?

Don't minimize this as being "mean and unfair"; it's about Charter Rights.

 

[Northern Light]

As I've pointed out here before, the number of these reported track trespasser incidents has increased from 110 in 2018 to 711 in 2024. Does it seem likely that it might be a new person doing this for the first time, all 711 times?
"TTC spokesperson Stuart Green said while individual offenders aren’t tracked". Why not?
""... and the hospital keeps releasing them,” the entry says."
How about having them institutionalized after they do it the first time? Who or what is being helped by releasing people so mentally unsound and incredibly dangerous to themselves to keep doing it again and again?

Lisa1956: Literally millions upon millions of people use the TTC and don't jump on the tracks and wander into the tunnels. Why spend millions to protect lunatics who ought to be in an institution some where? Why do those wraiths have more rights than millions of other TTC users, who probably paid their fares!?

I don't take any issue w/tracking repeat offenders, and establishing, if feasible, any mental health history/treatment.

Seems like a reasonable enough idea.

But I don't think it negates the value of Platform Edge Doors.

The purpose of said doors is not limited to intercepting people w/mental health issues from trespassing on tracks.

In respect of trespassing, other common issues are people jumping down to grab something they dropped like a phone; dares (teenagers), and people fleeing police.

But that's only 1/2 the story in terms of benefits for full-height PEDs, its also about litter prevention, which is often the cause of smoke-related delays when said litter comes into contact with the third rail.

In constant dollars (not inflation adjusted), refitting the current system is likely in the 1.4B range, not countless billions. Now, you could certainly inflate that by doing additional work, Paris, for instance, added air conditioning in many stations when they retrofitted. But that's also an added benefit. One that can't be added without PEDs I may add.

PS: demeaning people as lunatics is not a good look.

 

[txlseries4]

TTC staff have previously told the board full height platform doors are unlikely at most stations because it would add significant costs for platform reconstruction and adding sufficient ventilation, plus taking longer for construction.

But track level trespassing is far from the biggest cause of delays on the subways. Below are top 10 subway delay causes which changes depending on how the metric (cumulative delay, instances, average time per delay).

I've added in "Unauthorized at Track Level" with its position when it fell outside of the top 10
Data pulled today and shows January 2025 to August 31, taken from here: https://open.toronto.ca/dataset/ttc-subway-delay-data/

Ordered by Instances

|Code desc.                                              |Instances|Total Cumulative Delay (mins.)|AVG time per delay|
|--------------------------------------------------------|---------|------------------------------|------------------|
|Disorderly Patron                                       |812      |5,264                         |6.48              |
|Passenger Assistance Alarm Activated - No Trouble Found |493      |2,062                         |4.18              |
|OPTO (COMMS) Train Door Monitoring                      |403      |2,369                         |5.88              |
|Injured or ill Customer (On Train) - Medical Aid Refused|396      |3,039                         |7.67              |
|Passenger Other                                         |261      |2,313                         |8.86              |
|Unsanitary Vehicle                                      |228      |1,043                         |4.57              |
|Injured or ill Customer (On Train) - Transported        |225      |2,686                         |11.94             |
|Transportation Department - Other                       |217      |1,257                         |5.79              |
|*** #9 Unauthorized at Track Level                      |202      |2,741                         |13.57             |
|Work Zone Problems - Track                              |157      |1,885                         |12.01             |

Ordered by Total Cumulative Delay (mins.)

|Code desc.                                              |Instances|Total Cumulative Delay (mins.)|AVG time per delay|
|--------------------------------------------------------|---------|------------------------------|------------------|
|Disorderly Patron                                       |812      |5,264                         |6.48              |
|Injured or ill Customer (On Train) - Medical Aid Refused|396      |3,039                         |7.67              |
|*** #3 Unauthorized at Track Level                      |202      |2,741                         |13.57             |
|Injured or ill Customer (On Train) - Transported        |225      |2,686                         |11.94             |
|Weather Reports / Related Delays                        |144      |2,650                         |18.4              |
|OPTO (COMMS) Train Door Monitoring                      |403      |2,369                         |5.88              |
|Passenger Other                                         |261      |2,313                         |8.86              |
|Passenger Assistance Alarm Activated - No Trouble Found |493      |2,062                         |4.18              |
|Work Zone Problems - Track                              |157      |1,885                         |12.01             |
|Assault / Patron Involved                               |102      |1,292                         |12.67             |

Ordered by Average Time Per Delay

|Code desc.                                       |Instances|Total Cumulative Delay (mins.)|AVG time per delay|
|-------------------------------------------------|---------|------------------------------|------------------|
|Traction Power Rail Related                      |5        |813                           |162.6             |
|Priority One - Train in Contact With Person      |16       |1,139                         |71.19             |
|Doors Open in Error                              |2        |87                            |43.5              |
|Misc. Engineering & Construction Related Problems|1        |42                            |42                |
|Signal Control Problem - Signals                 |5        |172                           |34.4              |
|Fire/Smoke Plan B - Source TTC                   |29       |947                           |32.66             |
|Track Switch Failure - Signal Related Problem    |40       |1,254                         |31.35             |
|Signals Zone Countroller Failure                 |4        |103                           |25.75             |
|Weather Reports / Related Delays                 |144      |2,650                         |18.4              |
|Signals or Related Components Failure            |24       |417                           |17.38             |
|*** #13 Unauthorized at Track Level              |202      |2,741                         |13.57             |

And here are the top 15 stations that see the most track level trespassing, Jan 1 to Aug 31 2025

1. 54 DUNDAS STATION
2. 30 BLOOR STATION
3. 25 YONGE BD STATION
4. 24 SHEPPARD STATION
5. 22 ROSEDALE STATION
6. 20 WELLESLEY STATION
7. 20 UNION STATION
8. 19 CASTLE FRANK STATION
9. 17 ST GEORGE BD STATION
10. 16 EGLINTON WEST STATION
11. 16 COLLEGE STATION
12. 15 SPADINA BD STATION
13. 14 QUEEN STATION
14. 14 OLD MILL STATION
15. 14 ISLINGTON STATION

This topic was also highlighted in the CEO's report last board meeting and is reflected in the delay data available. The presentation had this slide breaking down causes of delays: