This is awesome. I really, really, really hope that the city can do something to clean up the area around the Salvation Army, or at least have some seriously increased police presence during events to steer people away from the especially challenged spots.
Yeah this whole revitalization doesn't work with the Salvation Army across the street it must be moved there shouldn't even be a discussion. The three levels of government plus the arena project should be kicking in some money as well to have it moved to a new location with a bigger and better facility to serve the unhoused.
 
Yeah this whole revitalization doesn't work with the Salvation Army across the street it must be moved there shouldn't even be a discussion. The three levels of government plus the arena project should be kicking in some money as well to have it moved to a new location with a bigger and better facility to serve the unhoused.
Totally agree. But can't help but feel like you used to call me hateful and other things when i would post basically the exact same thing. What changed?
 
The Salvation Army situation has gotten much worse over the past year too (and it was always bad). I can't see how it's defendable in the current location and the way they operate it. It makes that stretch of York a no-zone for so many people.
 
Totally agree. But can't help but feel like you used to call me hateful and other things when i would post basically the exact same thing. What changed?
It's how you get your message across that I often took issue with. Nothing has changed with me! You used some pretty hurtful words and statements in the past. I don't want to drudge up the past but you just seemed to always have an axe to grind against the homeless and poor. My statement above I didn't say anything hurtful, thought my message was to the point and "polite". I want to see a new Salvation Army facility because I know the help it brings to these people that need it and notice I called them "unhoused" I don't think you ever used that term you always had some choice words if I remember correctly. They are still people, they need help, I want to see the city have better resources to help them this is just not the right spot for those resources. The crisis is only getting worse not better actions need to be taken to address. There is a chance here for public/private partnerships to move resources around the city and improve them in the process that's what I want to see happen.
 
The Salvation Army situation has gotten much worse over the past year too (and it was always bad). I can't see how it's defendable in the current location and the way they operate it. It makes that stretch of York a no-zone for so many people.
Feels like inertia to me- 'because its always been there'. Obviously that's not actually true, but there's a big hurdle in deciding where it should actually go. What neighbourhood are we OK with letting this.... situation pour into? My first thought goes to near the General given the resources present, but I feel like it's the last thing that area needs. Maybe somewhere down on Main St E? I don't know, point is it's a tough nut to crack. But this location is really, really bad, even if investment wasn't flowing in.
 
The people who are in trouble are people who are in need of compassion and care for sure. The problem is that a very small number of these people have basically taken an entire downtown, and, by extension, an entire city of several hundred thousand, hostage. They have to be moved somewhere that is not as damaging to the greater good.

The people who come to the Bocelli concert will largely be people with disposable income and many (most?) of them will be from out of town. If they have an okay or even neutral experience, then great. If they are disturbed out of their minds based on what they see or experience, then they may never come back.

Edited to add: There simply must be a plan of some kind somewhere. Too many people have too large a stake for this to just sit idly by and hope for the best.
 
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It's how you get your message across that I often took issue with. Nothing has changed with me! You used some pretty hurtful words and statements in the past. I don't want to drudge up the past but you just seemed to always have an axe to grind against the homeless and poor. My statement above I didn't say anything hurtful, thought my message was to the point and "polite". I want to see a new Salvation Army facility because I know the help it brings to these people that need it and notice I called them "unhoused" I don't think you ever used that term you always had some choice words if I remember correctly. They are still people, they need help, I want to see the city have better resources to help them this is just not the right spot for those resources. The crisis is only getting worse not better actions need to be taken to address. There is a chance here for public/private partnerships to move resources around the city and improve them in the process that's what I want to see happen.
Please quote any posts that I made that were hurtful.
 
The people who are in trouble are people who are in need of compassion and care for sure. The problem is that a very small number of these people have basically taken an entire downtown, and, by extension, an entire city of several hundred thousand, hostage. They have to be moved somewhere that is not as damaging to the greater good.
This is hyperbolic at best.
The people who come to the Bocelli concert will largely be people with disposable income and many (most?) of them will be from out of town. If they have an okay or even neutral experience, then great. If they are disturbed out of their minds based on what they see or experience, then they may never come back.
Do you think people should be helped out of their poverty and situations due to the morality and compassion of their fellow citizens or so snooty people who visit downtown once in a blue moon don't have to be exposed to them?

Tired of seeing people go online to complain about the less fortunate without doing anything meaningful themselves to support them. I visit Union and the ACC plenty and many people hang around both of those venues and my opinion of downtown Toronto does not change because of them, and it certainly doesn't hinder people from attending events downtown.
 
... I visit Union and the ACC plenty and many people hang around both of those venues and my opinion of downtown Toronto does not change because of them, and it certainly doesn't hinder people from attending events downtown.
For the last three days in a row, I've been on a subway line that was shut down by a "trespasser at track level". I'm not sure why any reasonable person would somehow be on the side of arguing to have this type of thing keep happening. Never mind wanting the transit system to actually work (which I think is a completely valid thing to want), why would anyone think it's a better situation to let those who are so mentally unsound and dangerous to themselves (and should obviously be institutionalized) to keep doing this until they get killed by a train while they're doing this for 6th or 7th time?
I've made posts about this in other threads, so I'll just post links to avoid repeating myself.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/premier-doug-fords-ontario.28523/post-2172109
 
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This is hyperbolic at best.

Do you think people should be helped out of their poverty and situations due to the morality and compassion of their fellow citizens or so snooty people who visit downtown once in a blue moon don't have to be exposed to them?

Tired of seeing people go online to complain about the less fortunate without doing anything meaningful themselves to support them. I visit Union and the ACC plenty and many people hang around both of those venues and my opinion of downtown Toronto does not change because of them, and it certainly doesn't hinder people from attending events downtown.
1. I don't have stats at hand, but I am pretty confident that the state of downtown keeps many people away. Many businesses are concerned. It is not a bustling place most of the time.

2. What do you propose that people do to support the homeless/druggies? I am not in a position to support these people. I am not an expert in the remediation of homeless situations. I would not know where to begin.

3. Union Station and the ACC have their share of people in despair, but they are far drowned out by clean-cut professionals and students. The Hamilton GO Centre has a way different ratio. York Boulevard has a way different ratio. A GO ride and short walk to the ACC is way less unsettling than a GO ride and a moderate walk to the Hamilton Arena.

The situation on York in particular and the downtown in general is a serious concern. If we can't agree on that, then we are both just talking to walls.
 
I think the situation can be summarized as: these people need help and deserve compassion, we are failing them, and that failure manifests physically in the core as the non-neutral effect they have on it and its people.

We can’t ignore that perception, even if its wrong or incomplete. The more friction that occurs, the less charitable the public becomes. They can and will A) “vote with their feet”, and B) support increasingly extreme measures that solve the problem for them. The moral appeal wont work on its own because of this.

The major hurdle to a mutually beneficial solution is that it (some sort of supportive housing and support network), is increasingly expensive while generosity is dwindling. We must articulate that a compassionate solution is better for everyone in the long run compared to quick fixes. Because that path can get very dark very quick.
 
For the last three days in a row, I've been on a subway line that was shut down by a "trespasser at track level". I'm not sure why any reasonable person would somehow be on the side of arguing to have this type of thing keep happening.
This doesn't have anything to do with people loitering around downtown, at least in the manner that it's being complained about discussed in this thread.
I don't have stats at hand, but I am pretty confident that the state of downtown keeps many people away. Many businesses are concerned. It is not a bustling place most of the time.
This was true of most downtowns prior to our current housing crisis.
What do you propose that people do to support the homeless/druggies? I am not in a position to support these people. I am not an expert in the remediation of homeless situations. I would not know where to begin.
Support politicians looking to provide better outcomes for the homeless and less fortunate. Donate and volunteer where possible. But mostly that first point, as most governments in this country would rather sweep these people away than help them with better resources to find support and homes.
Union Station and the ACC have their share of people in despair, but they are far drowned out by clean-cut professionals and students. The Hamilton GO Centre has a way different ratio. York Boulevard has a way different ratio. A GO ride and short walk to the ACC is way less unsettling than a GO ride and a moderate walk to the Hamilton Arena.
This will happen more to Hamilton the more its downtown is gentrified rejuvenated and built upon. The more people are living in the area and working in the area the more that the less fortunate are "drowned out", as it were. I will soon be seeing the same thing in my Old Town/Corktown neighbourhood as the neighbourhood is gentrified and the homeless/loitering population is pushed elsewhere by development.
 

A bit of rehash, but good to know consistent message. Hurry up and name it already!
 

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