cryogen
Active Member
Had it been $500 mil, you'd be complaining it's too expensive. Now that it's cheaper, you're complaining it's going to look ugly without seeing a single architectural sketch. Some people can't be satisfied.
- Thread starter vistaway
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
An above-grade parking garage, next to the Lake, at any price is poor decision making. It's not just aesthetics, though that too, nor the general misuse of valuable land (Lake-side is at a premium, with a finite supply); it's also encouraging people to drive to the site, in an area already beset with traffic congestion.
mcbg1
Active Member
At least, they should turn it into something aesthetic with a purpose on the roof like what they did in Copenhagen : https://russell-play.com/products/presenting-parknplay-rooftop-copenhagen/
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votemac
Active Member
Most would be satisfied if it was not built at all. We don't want it
mcbg1
Active Member
A lot of people want it. They're not going to use public transportation.
kotsy
Senior Member
They would if there's nowhere to park and transit was promoted half as much as it is for the World Cup, which has eliminated every parking lot at Ex Place and 2 of the 3 surface lots at Liberty Village.
Northern Light
Superstar
A lot of people want the option to drive/park to the site. I'll grant that.
Though I'm sure those same people would prefer if it were free, and instead they'll find themselves paying $30 for event evenings and weekends. We sometimes don't get everything we want.
That said, I didn't suggest zero parking be provided, I take no real issue w/replacing the surface parking already on site.
However, we would be better off putting that underground, and on the north side of Lake Shore.
T3G
Senior Member
UtakataNoAnnex
Superstar
Regardless of how "popular" it is or will be, it's still a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons.
picard102
Senior Member
innsertnamehere
Superstar
This is dead on expected costs for above-grade parking structures - $56,000 per space. This pretty much aligns with every other parking structure built in Ontario in the last decade in terms of cost, inflation adjusted. Bloomington GO this will not be - that was a Liberal government waste project when they were funding ridiculously overdesigned transit stations. One thing the PCs have absolutely not been doing is building overly fancy infrastructure.. their transit and infrastructure spending, perhaps excepting Exhibition GO, has been almost frustratingly utilitarian.
Given the expected revenue here as well, I suspect the actual subsidy involved is quite small. Ontario borrows money at a 4% interest rate. On a 30-year finance period, this will have a carrying cost of $11.3 million a year.
To offset that debt, it would need to generate about $30,000 per day, or an average of about $8.8 per parking space, plus operating and maintenence costs. Given the $20+ rate this structure will probably go for, with higher event rates, and that it will support the Science Centre, Exhibition Place, Therme.. I'd say that it will probably need little to no actual subsidy.
Remember as well that by building 3,500 spaces here, it gives extra flexibility to remove and reconfigure the large number of surface parking lots in the area.
T3G
Senior Member
Is the parking going to recover the costs of building it, and will that money go back to the public coffers?
Seems pretty counter to Ford's "for the
generalcanada
Senior Member
Are we not going to talk about how the ashfault desert that currently/did exist is jam packed on concert nights? I remember seeing renders where they cut the amount of surface parking by at least half.
That garage mahal unlike bloomington will be packed on event nights. and were not even talking about the CNE
That garage mahal unlike bloomington will be packed on event nights. and were not even talking about the CNE
innsertnamehere
Superstar
If it's not profitable, it won't lose much money. This is far from some $200 million subsidy of motorists, and the simple reality is that lots of people drive to events downtown and you need parking. This area, as @generalcanada already points out, sees huge parking demand during all kinds of events that already happen.. and with the Science Centre, Therme, expanded Amphitheatre, continued growth of facilities at the Ex.. this will be a busy garage. It's far from Bloomington which sits massively underutilized and is oversized serving 5 trains a day.
Amare
Senior Member
I think most of us here wouldnt dispute a parking garage if there was an absolute need for it.
The problem many of us have with this idiotic concept is:
1) The province is solely using the parking garage as a justification to build a spa that wont see the light of day. The move of the Science Centre to Ontario Place was used to help justify the "need" for it and to make the numbers work.
2) If you are going to build one, you do it underground, away from prime waterfront real estate. There is no need for this non-sense where it's being located, and the only reason province is doing so because they locked themselves into building X amount of spaces and tied it to an idiotic spa concept that wont be built by a private entity (not withstanding the water table issues).