[SR95]

Rathburn? Hostile?

Yup, especially at Station Gate. The sheer volume of people crossing N/S across Rathburn at that intersection is straight up dangerous in its current configuration. I feel like it's only going to get busier with the Daniels development immediately west of Sheridan in the coming years.

I can see why the City's considering a N/S pedestrian tunnel under Rathburn as part of the new terminal at the NE corner of Rathburn/Station Gate. My personal pipe dream is that this kickstarts a PATH-like system in the City Centre

 

[doady]

Yup, especially at Station Gate. The sheer volume of people crossing N/S across Rathburn at that intersection is straight up dangerous in its current configuration. I feel like it's only going to get busier with the Daniels development immediately west of Sheridan in the coming years.

I can see why the City's considering a N/S pedestrian tunnel under Rathburn as part of the new terminal at the NE corner of Rathburn/Station Gate. My personal pipe dream is that this kickstarts a PATH-like system in the City Centre

The Square One GO bus terminal along Station Gate was supposed to be temporary and be replaced by an underground or below-grade Transitway station. If they had built the full Transitway, all those GO buses plus MiWay 107/109/110 would be underground, and riders would not be crossing on the street right now. There would have also been another Transitway station and bus terminal at Hurontario to spread the buses out. Instead, we get too many buses on the road and concentrated in one place. It's the same problem at Brampton Gateway.

 

[ShonTron]

Though Ford has green light the two extension, ML and IO will be responsible for the contracts as will awarded them and when. ML is holding everything close to their chest and tight lip these days on dates, timeframe, who is doing what and other info.

As to cost, will leave it to @ShonTron since that is neck of the wood and haven't follow Brampton work that much, but the cost seems out of line for what has to be done for trackwork only.

As for design review, that is a different story depending on what stage of detail design was done when cost surface for the extension and where it is now. There is a big different been 30% and 100% design and only have to look at QQE to see it. Given there were a lot of changes after design reached 80% when construction was started only to see things ripped out at 100% on the surface section, More time is needed to get things right for 100% to do the tunnelling and building the underground.

I will leave it to the Brampton folks to provide more detail info, but the track recorder for the corridor are not great to say when the go ahead will happen and why I am using 2030-35 as the current timeframe for opening. The city doesn't what an extraction hole in the now so call downtown that is being torn down that it will have to be done sideway or the TBM bury under an area that will not require deep foundations down the road. In place of TBM, you can dig it out. The existing underground flood channel is to be remove to allow the redevelopment of the downtown area from what I been told and works in favour of of an side extraction of the TBM.

That never came up in the documents I received.

 

[ShonTron]

I don't like the idea of trains crossing Steeles in both directions and disrupting cars, buses, and pedestrians just for one station. No matter where they put the station, pedestrians are going to take over that intersection. That's part of why we build LRT, yes? "Safety in numbers" is well documented when it comes to pedestrian traffic, and that is a municipal responsibility to begin with. So the province should not be at all concerned about pedestrian safety at Hurontario/Steeles, the same way they should not be concerned about the bike lanes Brampton has been implementing.

So pedestrian safety and movement shouldn’t get in the way of transit? How do you think people will get to the LRT? Wouldn’t you agree the shorter and safer the access is, the better for pedestrians and for the success of the transit project?

 

[sixrings]

I don't like the idea of trains crossing Steeles in both directions and disrupting cars, buses, and pedestrians just for one station. No matter where they put the station, pedestrians are going to take over that intersection. That's part of why we build LRT, yes? "Safety in numbers" is well documented when it comes to pedestrian traffic, and that is a municipal responsibility to begin with. So the province should not be at all concerned about pedestrian safety at Hurontario/Steeles, the same way they should not be concerned about the bike lanes Brampton has been implementing.

With that logic dundas and hurontario should be underground too.

 

[Allandale25]

That never came up in the documents I received.

It was in one of the letters in the post. Red line added to the letter below, and a zoomed in verison below that

 

[doady]

So pedestrian safety and movement shouldn’t get in the way of transit? How do you think people will get to the LRT? Wouldn’t you agree the shorter and safer the access is, the better for pedestrians and for the success of the transit project?

More pedestrians doesn't make roads less safe. It has the opposite effect.

Regardless, the pedestrian and bus network is Brampton's responsibility. No one is forcing all buses and riders onto the north side of Steeles other than Brampton Transit. Even eastbound 11 and 511 enter the terminal instead of stopping on street.

The province is not preventing the city from adding on street stops or enhancing the intersection for pedestrians, and they are building two other LRT stations Brampton Transit could serve, and there would have been more if the City had not voted against LRT on Main Street. They didn't want LRT north of Steeles, so no LRT north of Steeles, exactly as the city wanted.

With that logic dundas and hurontario should be underground too.

Last I checked, the LRT will not terminate at Dundas, so entirely different situation. If it did terminate at Dundas, then yes north side of Dundas would be the obvious location to avoid disruption.

Minimizing disruption is the entire point of LRT and rapid transit in general, yes? Why else build rapid transit? If they need to move the LRT underground at Dundas, it will be because the BRT becomes too busy. Unlike LRVs, buses cannot be combined into trains to reduce the frequencies, and 4-5 minutes is probably the limit with signal priority.

The BRT along Queen will need to operate every 4-5 minutes with artics on day one, so that already makes on street LRT along Main impossible there.

 

[ShonTron]

More pedestrians doesn't make roads less safe. It has the opposite effect.

Regardless, the pedestrian and bus network is Brampton's responsibility. No one is forcing all buses and riders onto the north side of Steeles other than Brampton Transit. Even eastbound 11 and 511 enter the terminal instead of stopping on street.

Those routes enter the terminal so that passengers transferring don’t have to cross nine lanes of traffic. It also minimizes walking to the major (albeit dying) shopping mall. Why should LRT transfers be forced to do that?

The province is not preventing the city from adding on street stops or enhancing the intersection for pedestrians, and they are building two other LRT stations Brampton Transit could serve, and there would have been more if the City had not voted against LRT on Main Street. They didn't want LRT north of Steeles, so no LRT north of Steeles, exactly as the city wanted.

The city has been pretty clear for the last six and a half years they want the stop put back. The old 2014-2018 council – of which only one of the six councillors who opposed it are left on council – also proposed a tunnel to connect the south side LRT stop with the terminal.

The intersection is still a Mobilinx construction site. The city can’t do anything to improve it in the meantime. (For now, Steeles is also maintained by the region, so there’s that too.) It will have to be dug up again to extend the tracks now that the downtown extension is approved and funded.

So stop making stuff up.

I also find it funny that you’re supporting adding more bus stops to an express bus route to support a bad LRT terminal.

 

[ShonTron]

It was in one of the letters in the post. Red line added to the letter below, and a zoomed in verison below that

View attachment 663273
View attachment 663274

It didn’t mention additional utility construction in that figure.

I meant to quote this, not Drum’s post.

While it's not in article, my understanding is that there is a major water/sanitary pipe under Steeles that would require moving. Presumably this was part of the original cost in the 2014 TPAP for the full route into downtown Brampton.

 

[doady]

Those routes enter the terminal so that passengers transferring don’t have to cross nine lanes of traffic. It also minimizes walking to the major (albeit dying) shopping mall. Why should LRT transfers be forced to do that?

The shopping mall is planned for redevelopment, is it not? You must realize why it might be a bad idea to design a LRT that serves a bus terminal that might not exist in the coming years? Even in the more immediate future, the importance this terminal will be greatly reduced by a northward extension of the LRT to downtown.

Yes, not crossing nine lanes of traffic is a matter of convenience. You originally claimed it is a matter of safety, and that was what I was disagreeing with.

The intersection is still a Mobilinx construction site. The city can’t do anything to improve it in the meantime. (For now, Steeles is also maintained by the region, so there’s that too.) It will have to be dug up again to extend the tracks now that the downtown extension is approved and funded.

Thanks for the clarification. Point is, the intersection can be redesigned to make crossings easier, and it should be redesigned to be more pedestrian-friendly no matter which side the station is located.

So stop making stuff up.

If you are suggesting that I was lying and deliberately trying to mislead people, it shows your true character more than mine.

]I also find it funny that you’re supporting adding more bus stops to an express bus route to support a bad LRT terminal.

I was criticizing the eastbound 11 and 511 entering the terminal; i.e. they shouldn't enter the terminal. I said nothing about adding a stop in addition to the existing one in the terminal. So stop making stuff up.

 

[ShonTron]

Yes, Shoppers World is going to be redeveloped -- with a lot more people living and working there than there are now. So the design makes perfect sense. The terminal was opened in 2012 with the intention of connecting with the LRT.

And yes, walking across a nine lane arterial road is a safety issue, not a matter of convenience. It's a dangerous intersection with a lot of traffic. Steeles is designated as a goods movement corridor with a lot of trucks using it that really should be on the 407.

 

[doady]

Derry is the same as Steeles, and they are thinking of building LRT there. It's not unsalvageable.

The Brampton Gateway terminal is eerily similar to CCTT, with the unnecessary concentration of routes. Oversized, yet somehow not big enough. I never supported the LRT serving CCTT at all. How many more buses are they going to cram into these terminals when the LRT opens? Brampton and Mississauga Transit have become too big for this hub-and-spoke style of transit.

 

[afransen]

Yup, especially at Station Gate. The sheer volume of people crossing N/S across Rathburn at that intersection is straight up dangerous in its current configuration. I feel like it's only going to get busier with the Daniels development immediately west of Sheridan in the coming years.

I can see why the City's considering a N/S pedestrian tunnel under Rathburn as part of the new terminal at the NE corner of Rathburn/Station Gate. My personal pipe dream is that this kickstarts a PATH-like system in the City Centre

A path system might be tricky with all the underground parking.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

Shot these while I was in the area. I have plans to shoot the area around City Centre tomorrow if time permits.

 

[Dan416]

I don’t have any update, but at least in my area at least it feels like construction is at a standstill. Barely seen any workers this week. I saw one walking in the ROW on their own.

Is construction paused due to the 30 degree weather? It seems like they make more progress in the winter than in the summer. At least I was surprised to see construction going on during winter. In the summer, when you’d think they’d be working, it seems really sparse lately and barely any visible progress. I feel like it’s been months since they started construction on the Fairview station but still no vertical construction.

Construction was never fast, but it just seems even slower now. Beginning of this year i really thought that it could open later this year. Now it’s very plain there’s zero chance of that happening.