[CapitalSeven]

I was looking at the Leslie area on Google Maps, and a silly (?) idea came into my head. I copied and pasted the whole area into Paint, then crudely copied and pasted the Celestica interchange at the Leslie intersection. Oddly enough, it fits. Then the only other infrastructure you'd need would be a crosswalk signal (as at Wynford) across the eastbound lanes. I suppose it would cost a lot to build, though.

There are a number of other possibilities for this intersection Metrolinx could explore, but maybe time is running out. They eventually came up with the right solution for Mount Dennis.

 

[snowystar]

This document here says the average speed of the east section will be 22-25km per hour. (pg12)

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proj...n_lrt/pdf/2009-11-20_display_panels_part1.pdf

The distance of that section is only 5-6km depending on what you include,

At best that is a savings of 5 minutes with an elevated line, and as little as 2.5 minutes for the entire eastern section. For many passengers the time savings could easily be wiped out by the extra time it takes to reach the platform. And some passengers will have their stop eliminated and have to walk to the next one.

With the time savings being so little it would be difficult to justify the added expense.

Improve the reliability of the system through grade separation and automation can save much more time than whatever stated from the "average speed". If the train is automated, then the timing of the trains are very predictable. It is almost guaranteed to have a train at a specific location at a specific time.. well, unless TTC screw up again. If you are riding the train for an important appointment or job that you have to arrive on time, you do not care about the "average travel time" - you only care about the "maximum travel time", or at least, the 95th-98th percentile so that you will not be late unless you're very unlucky.

When I was commuting on SkyTrain in Vancouver for a year, I had to transfer from the train to a *hourly* bus route. But I know the automated train is very reliable, so I am able to set up my connection as tight as possible - 1 minute to enter the station and board the train, and 1.5 minute for the connection to the hourly bus route. So the total wait and connection time is only 2.5 minutes. I do this trip almost every weekday for almost a year, and I only missed the connection for a grand total of 3 times. Now, if the system is somewhat less reliable, how much time should I add for the wait transfer so I won't get home one hour late everyday? If I have to add 7.5 minutes for the wait of train and possible gap between trains, and another 7.5 minutes from the possible delay in the trip, then the saving from grade separation and automation is not just 5 minutes, it is 20 minutes.

 

[Voltz]

Improve the reliability of the system through grade separation and automation can save much more time than whatever stated from the "average speed". If the train is automated, then the timing of the trains are very predictable. It is almost guaranteed to have a train at a specific location at a specific time.. well, unless TTC screw up again. If you are riding the train for an important appointment or job that you have to arrive on time, you do not care about the "average travel time" - you only care about the "maximum travel time", or at least, the 95th-98th percentile so that you will not be late unless you're very unlucky.

When I was commuting on SkyTrain in Vancouver for a year, I had to transfer from the train to a *hourly* bus route. But I know the automated train is very reliable, so I am able to set up my connection as tight as possible - 1 minute to enter the station and board the train, and 1.5 minute for the connection to the hourly bus route. So the total wait and connection time is only 2.5 minutes. I do this trip almost every weekday for almost a year, and I only missed the connection for a grand total of 3 times. Now, if the system is somewhat less reliable, how much time should I add for the wait transfer so I won't get home one hour late everyday? If I have to add 7.5 minutes for the wait of train and possible gap between trains, and another 7.5 minutes from the possible delay in the trip, then the saving from grade separation and automation is not just 5 minutes, it is 20 minutes.

But how many people would actually cut their trip that close? You are really stretching the benefits to the extreme, and still have not justified the extra cost.

 

[nfitz]

If the TTC is to operate the line, it makes sense to ask them why they do not demand a more useful thing to operate.

I will be a lot, lot, cheaper to operate a surface line than an elevated line.

The hostility towards the idea of bringing up the elevation issue at the TTC meeting amazes me.

I don't think it's hostility. It's simply that your talking to the wrong people. You'll ask your question, and you'll get shut down in a 5-second response, that it's not the right forum for this. If the moderator is on their toes, they'll simply stop you before you've finished your question, and not allow a response.

And then, consider how expensive an elevated structure will be. Subway is about $40 million a kilometre for the tunnel. How much is that kind of structure going to cost per kilometre.

And then there's the maintenance costs for an elevated structure.

 

[Solid Snake]

The hostility towards the idea of bringing up the elevation issue at the TTC meeting amazes me.

Some people are just in love with streetcars... Heck, I would prefer subways but I think an elevated LRT on Eglinton makes more sense.

Yes, let's just pay taxes to the province and see no improvement in transit besides the DRL and a subway to Richmond Hill...

Some people...

 

[CDL.TO]

But how many people would actually cut their trip that close? You are really stretching the benefits to the extreme, and still have not justified the extra cost.

My commute home used to involve connecting to a TTC route that ran every 20 minutes in the evening and I would cut it that close. The subway is very reliable.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This document here says the average speed of the east section will be 22-25km per hour. (pg12)

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proj...n_lrt/pdf/2009-11-20_display_panels_part1.pdf

The distance of that section is only 5-6km depending on what you include,

At best that is a savings of 5 minutes with an elevated line, and as little as 2.5 minutes for the entire eastern section. For many passengers the time savings could easily be wiped out by the extra time it takes to reach the platform. And some passengers will have their stop eliminated and have to walk to the next one.

That document is almost 4 years old. The more recent one is probably more accurate

With the time savings being so little it would be difficult to justify the added expense.

Depends on the cost. If it's less than $450 Million, I may be willing to support it. Over $500 Million is too much.

 

[M II A II R II K]

A 4 week old document is old for this project.

 

[snowystar]

But how many people would actually cut their trip that close? You are really stretching the benefits to the extreme, and still have not justified the extra cost.

It is quite normal among regular riders with long commute. Most would know the absolute last train they need to get on in order to make their connection. At least I saw many of the same people on the same train everyday...

I think most people, like me, would take earlier trains at first. But if you can actually see a later train coming in everyday while you are waiting for the bus, and people on that train ends up taking the same bus as you, eventually everyone would elect to take the later train to save a few minute on commute time. Its just a common behavior, not stretching by any mean...

 

[JayBeeGooner]

I didn't know that exercising my democratic rights was "bitching"

Where are you from???

Why not exercise your democratic rights to Metrolinx? You know, the agency in charge of the project? The TTC is not in charge of the project! Talk to Metrolinx, not the TTC.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Third thank you to Solid Snake. Keep up the fight


The Province and city are ridiculous.

 

[Voltz]

That document is almost 4 years old. The more recent one is probably more accurate

The more recent one was referring to LRT in general, and came out at a time when they were trying to justify an all tunneled line. The other one referred to that specific section of the line. Which one sounds more accurate? There has not exactly been some recent breakthrough in the accuracy of these estimations.

 

[ssiguy2]

Uh, I think you're making my point for me. Scarborough is 100x less dense than NYC boroughs.

SSI - the Gardiner was also considered beautiful and modern in its time. The Golden Mile needs to change. Building a barrier will guarantee it doesn't change inti a family friendly neighbourhood. Other than tilting at windmills or being car drivers, your arguments make so little sense.

The Golden Mile doesn't need to change but rather quite the opposite. It is essential that the Golden Mile stay zoned for exactly what it currently is...........commercial/industrial.

Despite what Miller's dream of "great city building" he knew shockingly little about it. As I stated, economically and socially vibrant cities need a Golden Mile just as much as a Bloor, Yonge, or Queen. These industrial/commercial areas provide much needed employment within easy access to most of the city dwellers. People need to work and businesses need land and building space to operate and expand and the Golden Mile offers those things. Transforming this area over to residential would create traffic nightmares and force far more people into their cars. The reason for this is that commercial/industrial lands are at a premium in the city and by transferring those lands to residential means those businesses have to flee the city to get available land and the only areas with that kind of land are those in the 905.

A transference of these essential work place would mean that thousands would have to take their cars to get to their far flung employment that do not have to do it now. People have this odd idea that somehow European cities that Miller has wet dreams over don't have these areas. Paris, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Rome.............every city has these sorts of areas as they are essential to the city's economy. Where do you think the people in those cities buy their cars, gas, home building supplies, have their hi-tech, or warehouses? Contrary to many urban planner dreams they don't have those businesses in the back of some chic little cafe on some bohemian blvd but their own versions of the Golden Mile.

Elevation is perfect for these ideas and again the Gardiner is totally different. The Gardiner is downtown, blocks the Waterfront, is a concrete mess underneath it, and is 6 lanes wide.

Also it was mentioned that LRT is cheaper to run than elevation but that is completely false as elevated means grade separation and that means lines can be automated which one would think be essential for a TTC which continually bitches at Queen's Park that it is short on operational funds.

 

[GenerationW]

So Crickets Chirping Station.....I mean Leslie Station lives on because a few of Jaye Robinson's rich supporters living in a Leslie Street condo in an area with hardly any density threw their weight around. Nice job Metrolinx! Way to show some backbone!!

We're all doomed.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Depends on the cost. If it's less than $450 Million, I may be willing to support it. Over $500 Million is too much.

Seriously? You're willing to spend $450 MILLION but not $500M? What's 8 figures between friends if you're spending 9 figures? Wow.