Elevated will also reduce the number of stations, which will increase speeds as well. It all ties in together.
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Elevated will also reduce the number of stations, which will increase speeds as well. It all ties in together.
Ozman
Active Member
Ok, so Metrolinx has wilted in the face of opposition from a few Leslie St. condo dwellers and/or become scared to bring the EA back to City Council for amendment (despite only hours earlier winning approval for the Western EA amendments at Mt. Dennis from the same council.)
But like it or not, what I thought were reasonable changes (and necessary ones) to the Brentcliffe-Don Mills section have been cancelled - for now.
I still say there has to be a way to do this without sticking with the original EA plan which would create a construction and operational nightmare for both LRT's and cars.
So,
would it be fair to say that ideally the vast majority would like to have
a) a Leslie stop
and
b) separate right-of-way for the LRT through to the hub at Don Mills
and
c) the maintenance of the present intersection for car traffic at Leslie and Eglinton to keep traffic flowing and to prevent massive back-ups of cars waiting to turn left from EB Eglinton and SB Leslie?
Constraints are:
1) bridge over West Don River can only accommodate 2 LRT lanes and 4 lanes of traffic.
2) Eglinton under the CPR bridge can only accommodate 2 LRT lanes and 4 lanes of traffic.
3) Celestica access road just east of CPR line must be accessible to all traffic on EB Eglinton.
So here’s what we do:
The LRT portal remains directly east of the new road that is coming down from the Scenic condos but instead of emerging in the centre 2 lanes of Eglinton (as in EA), it emerges in the 2 southernmost lanes. 4 lanes of car traffic to the north.
After going over the West Don bridge the road widens (as it does already now) so there is room for 2 left turn lanes to northbound Leslie from EB Eglinton (just as there is now). Just east of the Leslie intersection the road will pinch in to the same size as in the EA plates, but the Leslie stop will be south of traffic instead of in the middle. The 4 traffic 2 LRT arrangement proceeds under the CPR bridge and over the Celestica access road bridge (which I believe is already 7 lanes wide – not 6 – at present). The Celestica access road is modified slightly so that after it comes under the Eglinton bridge and turns east, instead of immediately splitting into a wye, both directions continue east (parallel and south of the LRT lanes) until east of the Don Mills Station portal. At that point the Celestica access road splits to a wye and merges with Eglinton eastbound (just like now but further east.)
(Pedestrian) access to Leslie stop would be by a pedestrian signal to cross the WB track at the western end of the platform. You could potentially have the pedestrian walkway also cross the EB track to access stairs to the park. The pedestrian signals could be controlled by the trains so pedestrian crossings wouldn’t affect the LRT schedule.
What do you guys think? Everybody wins?
But like it or not, what I thought were reasonable changes (and necessary ones) to the Brentcliffe-Don Mills section have been cancelled - for now.
I still say there has to be a way to do this without sticking with the original EA plan which would create a construction and operational nightmare for both LRT's and cars.
So,
would it be fair to say that ideally the vast majority would like to have
a) a Leslie stop
and
b) separate right-of-way for the LRT through to the hub at Don Mills
and
c) the maintenance of the present intersection for car traffic at Leslie and Eglinton to keep traffic flowing and to prevent massive back-ups of cars waiting to turn left from EB Eglinton and SB Leslie?
Constraints are:
1) bridge over West Don River can only accommodate 2 LRT lanes and 4 lanes of traffic.
2) Eglinton under the CPR bridge can only accommodate 2 LRT lanes and 4 lanes of traffic.
3) Celestica access road just east of CPR line must be accessible to all traffic on EB Eglinton.
So here’s what we do:
The LRT portal remains directly east of the new road that is coming down from the Scenic condos but instead of emerging in the centre 2 lanes of Eglinton (as in EA), it emerges in the 2 southernmost lanes. 4 lanes of car traffic to the north.
After going over the West Don bridge the road widens (as it does already now) so there is room for 2 left turn lanes to northbound Leslie from EB Eglinton (just as there is now). Just east of the Leslie intersection the road will pinch in to the same size as in the EA plates, but the Leslie stop will be south of traffic instead of in the middle. The 4 traffic 2 LRT arrangement proceeds under the CPR bridge and over the Celestica access road bridge (which I believe is already 7 lanes wide – not 6 – at present). The Celestica access road is modified slightly so that after it comes under the Eglinton bridge and turns east, instead of immediately splitting into a wye, both directions continue east (parallel and south of the LRT lanes) until east of the Don Mills Station portal. At that point the Celestica access road splits to a wye and merges with Eglinton eastbound (just like now but further east.)
(Pedestrian) access to Leslie stop would be by a pedestrian signal to cross the WB track at the western end of the platform. You could potentially have the pedestrian walkway also cross the EB track to access stairs to the park. The pedestrian signals could be controlled by the trains so pedestrian crossings wouldn’t affect the LRT schedule.
What do you guys think? Everybody wins?
Markster
Senior Member
Care to expand on this?
What was the plan? What was the wilting? What's the new plan?
I have a hard time evaluating your proposal without knowing what you're proposing against.
nfitz
Superstar
If he were to approach the Isreali Embassy to try and improve the ECLRT would that also require thanks?
He's barking up the wrong tree, wasting his time and theirs. Surely if he has a single opportunity to ask a question, he'd be better off asking something that could be answered.
Solid Snake
Active Member
I didn't know that exercising my democratic rights was "bitching"
Where are you from???
Solid Snake
Active Member
Solid Snake
Active Member
Exactly!
I don't care about TTC's answer. People have a right to know the implications of having the line at grade in their area vs the rest of the line.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
because bitching to the TTC is like bitching to the mayor of vancouver, they have 0 control over the alignment of the line at this point. That is metrolinx's job, the TTCs only involvement in the project is the fact that they will be contracted out to operate it.
Solid Snake
Active Member
So negative...
You have a right to disagree but voicing your opinion and questioning politicians and in this case city staff is NEVER a waste of time...
Solid Snake
Active Member
Well... Metrolinx certainly reacts to Councillors flip flop attitude. The point is not having TTC do something about it. Is to make people aware that they can demand to get better and pressure their Councillor to harass Metrolinx like Robinson did.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I second that Thank You.
If the TTC is to operate the line, it makes sense to ask them why they do not demand a more useful thing to operate.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Well do keep in mind that activism work both ways - for or against. It's not necessarily in one's favour.
AoD
AoD
Ozman
Active Member
Ok. Brief synopsis: In Dec. 2012, Metrolinx announced that they were looking at amending the Environmental Assessment that was approved in 2010, with regard to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT alignment between Laird and Don Mills stations. They proposed moving the eastern portal from just east of Brentcliffe Rd. to just east of Don Mills Rd. in order to move the tunnel boring launch shaft to Don Mills. There were issues with the site at Brentcliffe (slope stability, proximity to condos., soil contamination) and using the parking lot of the Science Centre made more sense. Also this would lessen the construction impact on traffic and the surrounding neighbourhoods. This change would mean the tunnel would go all the way to Don Mills and thus the line would be completely grade separated to that point, allowing for ATC to, and short turns at, Don Mills, a major hub.
I thought this was a big improvement form the centre of the road alignment that was originally planned which would make a mess of the Leslie/Eglinton intersection and force the short turns to occur at Laird (the last station in the tunnel.)
A small but vocal group of condo dwellers on Leslie about half a kilometre north of Eglinton protested because by putting the line underground the Leslie (surface) stop was eliminated and Metrolinx said the small projected ridership at Leslie did not warrant spending $80 million to build a full underground station there. In the face of opposition and also supposedly wanting to avoid having to get an amended EA through the circus that is Toronto City Council, Metrolinx abruptly dropped the whole plan and went back to the original EA. After 5 months, two different proposed amendments and 3 public meetings we're back to where we were last year. With an approved but flawed EA that could be fixed if Metrolinx would just look at different ideas instead of all or nothing. (i.e. tunnel all the way to Don Mills or go back to the centre median mess at Leslie that's in the original EA).
That's it in a nutshell. See the Crosstown website for details.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The hostility towards the idea of bringing up the elevation issue at the TTC meeting amazes me.
Sure, this isn't the ideal situation. In a perfect world, Solid Snake would be brining this up at a Metrolinx meeting. But there aren't any Metrolinx meetings so he's doing the next best thing and brining it to a TTC meeting.
Now all we can hope for is that the TTC will attempt to persuade Metrolinx to change the grade of the eastern portion (which is unlikely), or that any media at the event will publicize the concerns on the news (somewhat likely) and get the attention of politicians.
And if nothing else comes out of the event, at least Snake will have educated attendees about the options available for the Crosstown. That is more than 90% of us here have ever done.
I can't speak for other members, but you certainly have my gratitude Solid Snake. Perhaps if more of us followed his example, we could help to make transit in this city better.
Sure, this isn't the ideal situation. In a perfect world, Solid Snake would be brining this up at a Metrolinx meeting. But there aren't any Metrolinx meetings so he's doing the next best thing and brining it to a TTC meeting.
Now all we can hope for is that the TTC will attempt to persuade Metrolinx to change the grade of the eastern portion (which is unlikely), or that any media at the event will publicize the concerns on the news (somewhat likely) and get the attention of politicians.
And if nothing else comes out of the event, at least Snake will have educated attendees about the options available for the Crosstown. That is more than 90% of us here have ever done.
I can't speak for other members, but you certainly have my gratitude Solid Snake. Perhaps if more of us followed his example, we could help to make transit in this city better.
Voltz
Senior Member
This document here says the average speed of the east section will be 22-25km per hour. (pg12)
http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proj...n_lrt/pdf/2009-11-20_display_panels_part1.pdf
The distance of that section is only 5-6km depending on what you include,
At best that is a savings of 5 minutes with an elevated line, and as little as 2.5 minutes for the entire eastern section. For many passengers the time savings could easily be wiped out by the extra time it takes to reach the platform. And some passengers will have their stop eliminated and have to walk to the next one.
With the time savings being so little it would be difficult to justify the added expense.