[canucks2030]

I know a great many people in Waterloo region only take the ION and almost never take a bus if they can help it. Most of these people are relatively new transit riders but it shows that perceived comfort and reliability of a trains, even if running on street, can have a real effect on mode choice.

The Ion different and amazing because connecting many points of interests with an infrastructure. This is why it works so well. It’s connecting two downtowns, two university’s, an hospital, the innovation district, etc. It’s making Kitchener-Waterloo feels like one city.

 

[Rainforest]

I know a great many people in Waterloo region only take the ION and almost never take a bus if they can help it. Most of these people are relatively new transit riders but it shows that perceived comfort and reliability of a trains, even if running on street, can have a real effect on mode choice.

My guess, this has less to do with comfort, and more with the frequency and reliability.

I am mode neutral, it does not matter for me if a bus or a streetcar serves a particular route. Speed and frequency are the reasons to take this route, or look for alternative options.

 

[MisterF]

I wonder if there's been a study on that. It's just anecdotal, but most of my non-transit nerd friends have also expressed their preference for the smoother riding streetcar over the rough bus any time I've brought it up.

I've seen studies about this before, although I can't remember where so I can't provide any links. From what I recall, the conclusions lined up with what your friends have said - with all things being equal people tend to prefer rail vehicles over buses. It is of course difficult to control for all things being equal, for example streetcars being forced to move through intersections at a snails pace while buses aren't.

 

[KhalilHeron]

My guess, this has less to do with comfort, and more with the frequency and reliability.

I am mode neutral, it does not matter for me if a bus or a streetcar serves a particular route. Speed and frequency are the reasons to take this route, or look for alternative options.

I know at least someone who doesn't like taking the bus, even the routes that run every 10 minutes like the ION because of how shaky it can be especially if you need to stand. I think comfort is a bigger factor for new riders than most transit nerds think. Reliability is huge too though. The ION is rarely more than a minute late while it's comparable bus services run at least 5 minutes late every time in my experience. Attracting new riders is less important on Eglinton than in waterloo region, but the upgrade from bus to train alone will defiantly attract some new riders

 

[Rainforest]

I know at least someone who doesn't like taking the bus, even the routes that run every 10 minutes like the ION because of how shaky it can be especially if you need to stand. I think comfort is a bigger factor for new riders than most transit nerds think. Reliability is huge too though. The ION is rarely more than a minute late while it's comparable bus services run at least 5 minutes late every time in my experience. Attracting new riders is less important on Eglinton than in waterloo region, but the upgrade from bus to train alone will defiantly attract some new riders

People's preferences vary. Shakiness is not a factor for me, but may be a factor for other riders.

On Eglinton, we can expect a massive inflow of riders, but it will be hard to classify what brought them to this line because multiple factors will be in play.

New residential construction => a greater pool of potential riders.

Much faster operation in the tunnel part => Eglinton route is more attractive for existing riders who previously chose other routes.

Plus, the comfort factor.

 

[McGillicuddy]

If we're talking specifically about passenger comfort, then in the specific case of Eglinton, there's also a pretty significant push factor for a minority of riders.

To board the Eglinton Bus, you stand on a kerb, then step aboard the bus. To disembark, you stand at the door, then step to the kerb. In a lot of ways this is even easier than doing the same maneuver from a car, especially if you are travelling with stroller-aged children or you use a mobility aid.

To board the Eglinton Crosstown at the underground stations, you've got to descend 3-4 flights of stairs and escalators, or take at least 2 elevators. It's a thing.

This thing will not be offputting to most passengers, and it has other compensations. (A dry, well-lit waiting area. Little coffee shops at certain stations. Bike parking. Off-street bus transfers. An LRT...)

But there will be other people (especially those who will struggle most with the flights of stairs) who might reasonably prefer a bus. For these people, the above-ground platforms meet this specific need much better. (And, indeed, they have nothing to complain about on the Finch Line or the ION.)

 

[youngblood]

Drove along eglinton today and saw some graffiti on the station building at eglinton/bayview. Reddit post also shows one of the glass panels is cracked at eglinton station.

 

[StreetcarRider]

Lots of LRT vehicles in both directions around Bermondsey this afternoon.

 

[micheal_can]

Line size?
For the difference between subways,streetcars and LRTs?
What about buses?


From the TTC's website:
https://cdn.ttc.ca/-/media/Project/...1-11.pdf?rev=5c58eab8c6ba44a7bdf8fda9e81be754

 

[Kyle Campbell]

People's preferences vary. Shakiness is not a factor for me, but may be a factor for other riders.

On Eglinton, we can expect a massive inflow of riders, but it will be hard to classify what brought them to this line because multiple factors will be in play.

New residential construction => a greater pool of potential riders.

Much faster operation in the tunnel part => Eglinton route is more attractive for existing riders who previously chose other routes.

Plus, the comfort factor.

Not sure if this explanation would apply in Toronto, but in Ottawa line 2 is *slower* than the bus it replaced to the most popular destination: Rideau and the Byward market. But it's popular and has high ridership. Comfort is one factor, but reliability was the main reason it wins. The bus you could theoretically save 10 minutes, but the reliability was so poor it could be anywhere from a few minutes faster to 20 minutes slower. The train shows up at the same time every time, which is a huge deciding factor.

 

[crs1026]

This will obviously vary by route and time of day, but even as a transit lover I am more reluctant to take buses due to being more crowded and confining. Trams, especially the newer designs with wider doors and well spaced aisles and seating, at least allow one to board and find a place to stand without pushing through a crowd of people. Modern low floor buses are dysfunctional due to the narrow passages created by the cabinets over the front wheels, and the placement of priority seating (which translates into blockage due to walkers, strollers, and mobility devices) at the front where every rider must push past. One does not have to push their way down the length of a tram or subway as one does on a bus.
Seating at the rear is generally shoehorned - never adequate kneeroom, difficult to reach when there are standees. Aisle are narrowest of any type of vehicle. Where I can, I board via rear doors.
Personally I prefer standing to sitting especially when crowded - buses do tend to lurch a lot, which throws one off balance -although I find subways almost as bad especially when stopping.
I still encounter people (especially here in Etobicoke) who flatly declare “Buses are for poor people” - which is bollocks, but the attitude persists. However, don’t get me started about the Royal York bus when the schools let out ! If we are going to promote buses we need to manage overcrowding and redesign for greater passenger mobility.

- Paul

 

[T3G]

^Agreed with all of the above, but I will also add that our reluctance to give buses their own lanes does them no favours either.

The other day, I was taken ill at school and caught an early GO bus out of town. We were stuck on that thing for two hours due to rush hour traffic. If I had waited at Union for another hour for the first Milton train out, my journey would have been almost the same length. If you want people to feel like third class citizens whose time has no value, make them use mixed traffic transit.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

If we're talking specifically about passenger comfort, then in the specific case of Eglinton, there's also a pretty significant push factor for a minority of riders.

To board the Eglinton Bus, you stand on a kerb, then step aboard the bus. To disembark, you stand at the door, then step to the kerb. In a lot of ways this is even easier than doing the same maneuver from a car, especially if you are travelling with stroller-aged children or you use a mobility aid.

To board the Eglinton Crosstown at the underground stations, you've got to descend 3-4 flights of stairs and escalators, or take at least 2 elevators. It's a thing.

This thing will not be offputting to most passengers, and it has other compensations. (A dry, well-lit waiting area. Little coffee shops at certain stations. Bike parking. Off-street bus transfers. An LRT...)

But there will be other people (especially those who will struggle most with the flights of stairs) who might reasonably prefer a bus. For these people, the above-ground platforms meet this specific need much better. (And, indeed, they have nothing to complain about on the Finch Line or the ION.)

Which is why there will be a "34 EGLINTON" bus running from Mt. Dennis Station to Kennedy Station, when Line 5 opens (allegedly). Useful when an elevator (or escalator) is out-of-service due to maintenance or mischief. The rush hour bus lane signs will be removed when Line 5 opens, so the 34 will be in mixed traffic.

 

[EnviroTO]

Kind of a shame about the Cedarvale signage. The stainless steel looks much more refined. Obviously this was done on the cheap.

Still, if they properly center the sign in the visible space it will look far better than the Don Valley renaming (using a big black background sign instead of a glass frosting treatment) or the TMU signs.

 

[Rainforest]

Not sure if this explanation would apply in Toronto, but in Ottawa line 2 is *slower* than the bus it replaced to the most popular destination: Rideau and the Byward market. But it's popular and has high ridership. Comfort is one factor, but reliability was the main reason it wins. The bus you could theoretically save 10 minutes, but the reliability was so poor it could be anywhere from a few minutes faster to 20 minutes slower. The train shows up at the same time every time, which is a huge deciding factor.

Line 2 - is it O-Train? Or, the new Ottawa LRT? I did not have a chance to visit and ride the new LRT since it opened. On the OC Transpo map, it shows the new LRT as Line 1, and O-Train as Line 2.

But if we are talking about the new LRT, then I am a bit puzzled how the underground line can end up being slower than the mixed-traffic bus via Albert St / Slater St.