Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Toronto does not use theses signs, it seems.
Also Toronto cannot use "red traffic arrows".
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Also Toronto cannot use "red traffic arrows".
nfitz
Superstar
I didn't think anywhere in Ontario used them after the court ruling a few years ago along the transitway in Ottawa that threw out a ticket for someone who turned left at such a sign - because there was nothing to indicate it wasn't allowed.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
Do you have a link for that? I'm interested to see where this took place.
I thought I remembered seeing these green circled arrow signs on my Driving Test? I think they only had one arrow instead of two, though. Or am I remembering wrong?
The issue I have with these signs is that people might see a green circle as a "you may do this" rather than a "you must do this". After all, the green circled U-turn sign doesn't mean that everyone is required to make a U-turn.
I would personally rather that they add a "no left or U-turn sign" to the HTA.
nfitz
Superstar
I'd have to dig through newspaper archives from the 1990s(?). Somewhere near the mess that is Nicholas Street and Stewart Street.
crs1026
Superstar
There's a lot of attention to the legality of each of those signs - but very little attention to the overall cognitive flow and layout/design of all the signs in total at those intersections. In my opinion, they are all extremely cluttered signage as a whole and it is understandable if drivers miss one or more signs, especially if they are new to the intersection.
- Paul
- Paul
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
While this has been mentioned before in this and other threads, for the newbies to this thread...
This is from Google Maps, April, 2025, at Eglinton & Bermondsey.
The "transit signals" look the same as the regular traffic signals. Signage clutter for the transit signal and left turn signal. Not so great if you don't read English The signs do not even include Canada's other official language, French. No "left turn red arrow". If you're a s-l-o-w reader, you can be in trouble.
Of course, MTO (and Toronto Transportation Services) refuses to follow what they do in Europe, who have to handle their 24 official and working languages.
This is from Google Maps, April, 2025, at Eglinton & Bermondsey.
The "transit signals" look the same as the regular traffic signals. Signage clutter for the transit signal and left turn signal. Not so great if you don't read English The signs do not even include Canada's other official language, French. No "left turn red arrow". If you're a s-l-o-w reader, you can be in trouble.
Of course, MTO (and Toronto Transportation Services) refuses to follow what they do in Europe, who have to handle their 24 official and working languages.
Steve X
Senior Member
Does this mean we can violate all the signs in Quebec cause they are all in French? If they can't read English in Ontario, they should go hand their license in. Most if these collisions occur either they only look at the main green or the purposely make the turn to save time. No signage or traffic signal shapes will save you from that.
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
The Transit signals seem pretty clear to me considering when they are green they show a straight arrow...
BrenWilson
Active Member
Monarch is referring to the fact that Ontario doesn't allow the use of european style transit signals, which are shape based and cannot at all be confused with automobile signals. Instead the MTO thinks that standard (ok they are black) signal heads with a nearby "transit signal" sign work well enough that they don't even allow you the choice.
The example he posted is hilarious. A left turn signal sign above a transit signal sign, and then a transit lane sign wedged between the automobile signals. It's an absolute visual nightmare.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
Just outta curiosity, does anyone have any knowledge about the "feasibility study" the MTO supposedly did on red arrows and better transit signals? How did they even conclude that the "the signal displays in OTM Book 12 are still sufficient for signal operational needs in Ontario" after spending more than 30 minutes driving in downtown?
I have heard from elsewhere that the TAC is planning on adding red arrows to the Canadian MUTCD. But that document isn't mandatory for provinces to follow.
Another thing that bothers me is when we use green left turn arrows at U-turn signals, when turning left isn't even allowed (e.g. at Eglinton and Sinnott). When will U-turn arrows be allowed in Ontario?
I have heard from elsewhere that the TAC is planning on adding red arrows to the Canadian MUTCD. But that document isn't mandatory for provinces to follow.
Another thing that bothers me is when we use green left turn arrows at U-turn signals, when turning left isn't even allowed (e.g. at Eglinton and Sinnott). When will U-turn arrows be allowed in Ontario?
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
I have some glaucoma (being 73, soon to get lens replacement surgury). Still can read it, if I squint to "read it" to find out if it refers to automobile or streetcar drivers. Would be worse at night.
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
Personally I'm biased towards the signals used by ION in Waterloo Region. No need for a "Transit Signal" sign with these...
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Proceed
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ZEBuilder
Active Member
Ontario has allowed for other signals to be used for transit. KW has a completely different signal for their LRT so its certainly possible to get a different signal design in use. It's impossible to confuse KWs signal for a traffic light.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Personally I'm biased towards the signals used by ION in Waterloo Region. No need for a "Transit Signal" sign with these...
Proceed
Stop
The transit signals that MTO and Toronto Transportation Services refuse to use..
Since 2019, Québec has been using these for its buses...
Including this here so you don't have to hunt for it.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Call me odd, but if you cannot figure out which traffic signal is for your lane, you should not have a drivers license.