[Obsidian]

The worst part is that they decided to build light rail instead of heavy rail because they thought it would be cheaper, but it ended up costing 13 billion dollars.

We still probably saved 5 to 10 billion because if it was heavy rail it would all be underground. Most likely the Finch West LRT would have been scrapped to pay for a fully underground Eglinton heavy rail system or the province would have said no because of the cost to financing the cost and reduce the length to probably half of the Eglinton Crosstown..

 

[Bizari]

Feel free to make your thoughts known the the General Manager of the (archaic) Toronto Transportation Services, whom seem not to understand the concept of how proper signal priority would speed up commute times for thousands of people every day:

Barbara Gray
Barbara.Gray@toronto.ca

I wonder how long it will take the media to realize and pay attention to this?

Out of all the crazy things this project has given us, the lack of signal priority is probably one of the top three most bizarre things.

 

[Thaboss]

We still probably saved 5 to 10 billion because if it was heavy rail it would all be underground. Most likely the Finch West LRT would have been scrapped to pay for a fully underground Eglinton heavy rail system or the province would have said no because of the cost to financing the cost and reduce the length to probably half of the Eglinton Crosstown..

Not sure I agree at all....

In an alternative world, the eglinton subway was built and completed in the mid to late 90s for billions of dollars cheaper than this lrt.

The city could then focuse on other projects including the Finch lrt. And Lakeshore line in the 20 years that follow.
.

Instead we had short sighted decsion making to cust imaginary costs without considering FV of land and inflating labour costs

 

[duffo]

It is absolutely insane that Toronto spent $ 13 billion and almost 15 years to build a glorified streetcar project, and the "LRT" needs to wait so long to cross every single intersection because there is no basic signal priority.

It is mind-blowing to see that they need to let the left-turning cars go first, exactly how they operate the diabolical streetcar routes in downtown Toronto.

How signal priority for a project like this is not a default component, and nobody in Toronto seems to care is actually crazy.

This has been said a million times in this thread, but there is "basic signal priority". At all signals, the red signal can be shortened and the green can be extended to allow trains running behind schedule to recover and maintain headway.

The reason given for no more aggressive form of TSP is that a) it would negatively impact high volumes of north-south car traffic at intersections along Eglinton b) these roads also have very frequent bus service which would also be subject to the increased congestion, offsetting some of the positive impact of more aggressive TSP for riders who need to transfer from these routes.

 

[Obsidian]

Not sure I agree at all....

In an alternative world, the eglinton subway was built and completed in the mid to late 90s for billions of dollars cheaper than this lrt.

The city could then focuse on other projects including the Finch lrt. And Lakeshore line in the 20 years that follow.
.

Instead we had short sighted decsion making to cust imaginary costs without considering FV of land and inflating labour costs

well that goes to my point, the Eglinton subway was a fraction of the length of the Crosstown LRT so if the Crosstown was proposed as a subway i would have never been proposed at it current length, at most it would probably be half the current length as a subway project.

I gladly take a 28km Eglinton LRT lines (both phases) over a half as long Crosstown subway anyday.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is absolutely insane that Toronto spent $ 13 billion and almost 15 years to build a glorified streetcar project, and the "LRT" needs to wait so long to cross every single intersection because there is no basic signal priority.

It is mind-blowing to see that they need to let the left-turning cars go first, exactly how they operate the diabolical streetcar routes in downtown Toronto.

How signal priority for a project like this is not a default component, and nobody in Toronto seems to care is actually crazy.

IMO, there should be no left turns allowed on any streetcar or LRT route in this city. As for Eglinton, any left turns not eliminated should be Jughandles.

 

[ShonTron]

My top five intersections for eliminating left turns are:

- Bathurst and Dundas, especially eastbound.
- Spadina and Queen
- Spadina and Dundas
- Spadina and College
- Queen and Dufferin

It’s a bit trickier for downtown streets, but whenever a left turn for drivers is deemed necessary, install a left turn advance signal. At Dundas and Jarvis, it clears eastbound streetcars pretty well.

 

[bearcat]

My top five intersections for eliminating left turns are:

- Bathurst and Dundas, especially eastbound.
- Spadina and Queen
- Spadina and Dundas
- Spadina and College
- Queen and Dufferin

It’s a bit trickier for downtown streets, but whenever a left turn for drivers is deemed necessary, install a left turn advance signal. At Dundas and Jarvis, it clears eastbound streetcars pretty well.

At southbound Bathurst at Adelaide the advance green left turn should get extended until the streetcar clears the intersection.

 

[smallspy]

As for Eglinton, any left turns not eliminated should be Jughandles.

With what land? How much more expensive did you want the project to be in order to buy all of those buildings to tear down for your jughandles?

Dan

 

[Admiral Beez]

With what land? How much more expensive did you want the project to be in order to buy all of those buildings to tear down for your jughandles?

I assume your question is disingenuous, intended as a dismissal rather than true inquiry, but both sides of Eglinton from Victoria Park onwards are slated to be torn down and residential development put in. Now's our chance to require those developments to include the roads to reduce left turns off Eglinton. I expect you may reply the contrarian, to tell us why this cannot, will not or should not be done, but so be it.

 

[T3G]

Sure, yes, good, but none of these intersect with the Eglinton line, which this thread is about.

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who finds the constant hand wringing about off topic posts on this forum to be totally absurd? Human conversations are known for drifting from. The original topic all the time, and if the given subject of a discussion is fruitful enough, it should drift back naturally. Since there is nothing to talk about at present, no new information has been released and the only thing we can do is rehash the same old discussion about how the project is late and how it should or should not have been constructed differently, I'm *really* not seeing the trouble here.

 

[ShonTron]

Exactly. We frown upon non sequitur posts, bitter arguments and tangents that go way beyond the original point, but we certainly allow some discussion on related things provided they stay within bounds.

 

[txlseries4]

IMO, there should be no left turns allowed on any streetcar or LRT route in this city. As for Eglinton, any left turns not eliminated should be Jughandles.

These would make the road much less safe for people not in cars. Forget people getting hit by the LRT if they cross mid-block, many people would be hit by drivers not looking as they exit to the ramp or afterwards when making a right or left turn.

 

[ShonTron]

These would make the road much less safe for people not in cars. Forget people getting hit by the LRT if they cross mid-block, many people would be hit by drivers not looking as they exit to the ramp or afterwards when making a right or left turn.

Very true. Jughandles are popular in New Jersey, which has some of the most pedestrian hostile suburban roads I’ve ever encountered. They can be useful in certain circumstances, but definitely not in an area that will see dense mixed use development.

A better option would be to have drivers use secondary parallel roads north and south of Eglinton. Ashtonbee already fills this role on the north, and there will be a new road on the south once redevelopment starts.

 

[Bizari]

This has been said a million times in this thread, but there is "basic signal priority". At all signals, the red signal can be shortened and the green can be extended to allow trains running behind schedule to recover and maintain headway.

The reason given for no more aggressive form of TSP is that a) it would negatively impact high volumes of north-south car traffic at intersections along Eglinton b) these roads also have very frequent bus service which would also be subject to the increased congestion, offsetting some of the positive impact of more aggressive TSP for riders who need to transfer from these routes.

"Basic signal priority" means that:

1] trains take precedence over left-turn cars;

2] An auto green light extension is provided to almost always allow the LRT to pass without waiting at lights.

Do you see any of that here?
Those are the "basic" things ANY modern transit system around the world has.

Unless you are telling me our standard of "basic" is just supposed to be inferior compared with anyone else?

In terms of the argument that an actual signal priority would affect the North-South frequent bus service.

Can we stop acting like Toronto is the only city where a tram line intersects with other transit lines?

I'm pretty sure that in almost every European city, a modern tram system doesn't just intersect with high-frequency buses, but also high-frequency trams!

If they can do that, what is our excuse? Or we are just so "special" that we can't have any basic good things.