[crs1026]

There's a lot of attention to the legality of each of those signs - but very little attention to the overall cognitive flow and layout/design of all the signs in total at those intersections. In my opinion, they are all extremely cluttered signage as a whole and it is understandable if drivers miss one or more signs, especially if they are new to the intersection.

- Paul

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

While this has been mentioned before in this and other threads, for the newbies to this thread...

This is from Google Maps, April, 2025, at Eglinton & Bermondsey.

The "transit signals" look the same as the regular traffic signals. Signage clutter for the transit signal and left turn signal. Not so great if you don't read English The signs do not even include Canada's other official language, French. No "left turn red arrow". If you're a s-l-o-w reader, you can be in trouble.

Of course, MTO (and Toronto Transportation Services) refuses to follow what they do in Europe, who have to handle their 24 official and working languages.

 

[Steve X]

While this has been mentioned before in this and other threads, for the newbies to this thread...

This is from Google Maps, April, 2025, at Eglinton & Bermondsey.

The "transit signals" look the same as the regular traffic signals. Signage clutter for the transit signal and left turn signal. Not so great if you don't read English The signs do not even include Canada's other official language, French. No "left turn red arrow". If you're a s-l-o-w reader, you can be in trouble.

View attachment 673710

Of course, MTO (and Toronto Transportation Services) refuses to follow what they do in Europe, who have to handle their 24 official and working languages.

Does this mean we can violate all the signs in Quebec cause they are all in French? If they can't read English in Ontario, they should go hand their license in. Most if these collisions occur either they only look at the main green or the purposely make the turn to save time. No signage or traffic signal shapes will save you from that.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

While this has been mentioned before in this and other threads, for the newbies to this thread...

This is from Google Maps, April, 2025, at Eglinton & Bermondsey.

The "transit signals" look the same as the regular traffic signals. Signage clutter for the transit signal and left turn signal. Not so great if you don't read English The signs do not even include Canada's other official language, French. No "left turn red arrow". If you're a s-l-o-w reader, you can be in trouble.

View attachment 673710

Of course, MTO (and Toronto Transportation Services) refuses to follow what they do in Europe, who have to handle their 24 official and working languages.

The Transit signals seem pretty clear to me considering when they are green they show a straight arrow...

 

[BrenWilson]

The Transit signals seem pretty clear to me considering when they are green they show a straight arrow...
View attachment 673752

Monarch is referring to the fact that Ontario doesn't allow the use of european style transit signals, which are shape based and cannot at all be confused with automobile signals. Instead the MTO thinks that standard (ok they are black) signal heads with a nearby "transit signal" sign work well enough that they don't even allow you the choice.

The example he posted is hilarious. A left turn signal sign above a transit signal sign, and then a transit lane sign wedged between the automobile signals. It's an absolute visual nightmare.

 

[trafficexplorerON]

Just outta curiosity, does anyone have any knowledge about the "feasibility study" the MTO supposedly did on red arrows and better transit signals? How did they even conclude that the "the signal displays in OTM Book 12 are still sufficient for signal operational needs in Ontario" after spending more than 30 minutes driving in downtown?

I have heard from elsewhere that the TAC is planning on adding red arrows to the Canadian MUTCD. But that document isn't mandatory for provinces to follow.

Another thing that bothers me is when we use green left turn arrows at U-turn signals, when turning left isn't even allowed (e.g. at Eglinton and Sinnott). When will U-turn arrows be allowed in Ontario?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Transit signals seem pretty clear to me considering when they are green they show a straight arrow...
View attachment 673752

I have some glaucoma (being 73, soon to get lens replacement surgury). Still can read it, if I squint to "read it" to find out if it refers to automobile or streetcar drivers. Would be worse at night.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Personally I'm biased towards the signals used by ION in Waterloo Region. No need for a "Transit Signal" sign with these...

Proceed

Stop

 

[ZEBuilder]

Monarch is referring to the fact that Ontario doesn't allow the use of european style transit signals, which are shape based and cannot at all be confused with automobile signals. Instead the MTO thinks that standard (ok they are black) signal heads with a nearby "transit signal" sign work well enough that they don't even allow you the choice.

Ontario has allowed for other signals to be used for transit. KW has a completely different signal for their LRT so its certainly possible to get a different signal design in use. It's impossible to confuse KWs signal for a traffic light.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Personally I'm biased towards the signals used by ION in Waterloo Region. No need for a "Transit Signal" sign with these...

Proceed

Stop

The transit signals that MTO and Toronto Transportation Services refuse to use..

Since 2019, Québec has been using these for its buses...
Including this here so you don't have to hunt for it.

Québec buses even use the diagonal bar to turn left from the right lane.

 

[micheal_can]

Call me odd, but if you cannot figure out which traffic signal is for your lane, you should not have a drivers license.

 

[BrenWilson]

Ontario has allowed for other signals to be used for transit. KW has a completely different signal for their LRT so its certainly possible to get a different signal design in use. It's impossible to confuse KWs signal for a traffic light.

They used them under some sort of exception as a trial, the details of which I am not familiar with. It was then not adopted into the standard MTO OTM on lights and signage, which is why Metrolinx or TTC have not used them on any of their projects.

Call me odd, but if you cannot figure out which traffic signal is for your lane, you should not have a drivers license.

Have you seen the vast majority of ontario drivers? Driver knowledge and skill level is a known and relatively static data point, we could sit around and complain about it... or we could implement a known, proven, well used solution.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Call me odd, but if you cannot figure out which traffic signal is for your lane, you should not have a drivers license.

In some jurisdictions, they position the traffic signals OVER the traffic lane they allegedly control.
It means having a very long arm over the roadway, however.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Drove to New York last month and Rochester was full of these. While it may make directions easier, it's a lot of visual clutter. The city looks like junk with all the hanging wires and long poles.

You mean like this?

 

[micheal_can]

In some jurisdictions, they position the traffic signals OVER the traffic lane they allegedly control.
It means having a very long arm over the roadway, however.View attachment 673796

I do not mean over the lane.I mean if you look at the lights and cannot figure out which ones to follow,you should not be driving. I have driven in most provinces and a good number of states, and even biked in other countries. Not hard to know which lights I need to follow. For example, if I am not a transit operator, I should not be following the 'transit' signals..I have always thought once your license comes up for renewal, all drivers must do a written and road test. It may weed out the really bad ones so that stupid accidents stop happening.