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hawc said:
I didn't even know you could have quick sand in non tropical regions.
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1000000475.jpg

It definitely exists elsewhere in Toronto

Photo source: https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/n...k-warns-of-news-photo/170386276?adppopup=true
 
Richard White said:
PurplePinky said:
There are rumours of possible tracks sinking near the Bayview station due to quick sand.
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Under normal circumstances I'd think you were making things up
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Unfortunately so many things have gone sideways that this is actually believable.[/QUOTE]I think I mentioned something here a decade or so ago. Coincidentally - or not - I was drilling some monitoring wells at the northeast corner of Eglinton and Bayview - over 30 years ago - and at quite a surprising depth hit the most flowing sands I've ever seen. No spoon recovery, and it looked like soup coming out of the hole. N=1! Complete liquefaction.

It was hardly an unknown though. They riddled this area with so many boreholes, and would have been well aware of this. With the station and tunnel design dealing with this accordingly.

I talked to someone once who was involved with the dewatering for this station, and they didn't have any particular extraordinary challenges for this station compared to the rest of the line.

Probably a kernel of truth has turned into a myth.
 
When the McDonalds was built on the south east corner, there were problems with concrete ‘sinking’ or a slab (for parking lot) of concrete sinking. Or similar.

It was due to the underground river at that location, it was remedied but it has not been forgotten.

IMO, some are nervous of what is to come with trains full of people, load changes etc.
 
Most of those nervous Nellie’s do not have any engineering or design background.

Wonder if that would help their understanding?
 
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nfitz said:
Unfortunately so many things have gone sideways that this is actually believable.

I think I mentioned something here a decade or so ago. Coincidentally - or not - I was drilling some monitoring wells at the northeast corner of Eglinton and Bayview - over 30 years ago - and at quite a surprising depth hit the most flowing sands I've ever seen. No spoon recovery, and it looked like soup coming out of the hole. N=1! Complete liquefaction.

It was hardly an unknown though. They riddled this area with so many boreholes, and would have been well aware of this. With the station and tunnel design dealing with this accordingly.

I talked to someone once who was involved with the dewatering for this station, and they didn't have any particular extraordinary challenges for this station compared to the rest of the line.

Probably a kernel of truth has turned into a myth.
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considering the cavern containing Laird station was built using Sequential Excavation I highly doubt that the soil conditions and water table issues wouldn't have been noticed and appropriately remedied. After all, the entire cavern for Laird was mined to 489m long to also accommodate the storage track and crossover.
 
jordanmkasla2009 said:
considering the cavern containing Laird station was built using Sequential Excavation I highly doubt that the soil conditions and water table issues wouldn't have been noticed and appropriately remedied. After all, the entire cavern for Laird was mined to 489m long to also accommodate the storage track and crossover.
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To be honest I'm more worried about the so called "equipment issues" we have heard about on this thread.
I really hope they don't have to replace half of the components on the trains........ 😭
 
Monarch Butterfly said:
Betting that the Gordie Howe International Bridge will open first before the Eglinton Line 5.
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That’s no feat considering that the Eglinton Crosstown, from its first shovel in the ground in Nov 2011 to its eventual launch of service in late 2025, will be the longest rail system construction project in Canadian history.

The 4,600 km Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) from Montreal to Vancouver took about 4 years (1881–1885) from first spike to operational service. With over 600 deaths during its construction (compared to one fatality with the ECT), health and safety have come a long way, but it shouldn’t take fourteen years to complete a 19 Km lrt from Mount Dennis to Kennedy. In Germany, Japan or China they’d have that built and running years ago.
 
Admiral Beez said:
That’s no feat considering that the Eglinton Crosstown, from its first shovel in the ground in Nov 2011 to its eventual launch of service in late 2025, will be the longest rail system construction project in Canadian history.

The 4,600 km Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) from Montreal to Vancouver took about 4 years (1881–1885) from first spike to operational service. With over 600 deaths during its construction (compared to one fatality with the ECT), health and safety have come a long way, but it shouldn’t take fourteen years to complete a 19 Km lrt from Mount Dennis to Kennedy. In Germany, Japan or China they’d have that built and running years ago.
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Japan takes their time. This line in Tokyo was completed in stages over 30 years.
Interesting bit: The first 3km section took seven years to construct, but another nine years before it was opened.
 
The Grand Paris Express was proposed in 2013 and will be completed by 2031 with 4 new lines, 2 extensions, 200km of new Metro rail, and with 68 stations.
If this doesn't exemplify Metrolinx's shocking incompetence, I'm not sure what does.

Of course you don't have to go to Paris but just down the road in Montreal. REM started construction in 2018 {6 years after Eglinton} and within a couple years Montreal will have doubled the size of it's Metro system and yes, REM is a Metro. What's even more shocking is that these are catenary powered trains yet somehow GO can't even stick a single pole in the ground since announcing electrification over a decade ago and still won't for at LEAST 5 years.
 
jordanmkasla2009 said:
considering the cavern containing Laird station was built using Sequential Excavation I highly doubt that the soil conditions and water table issues wouldn't have been noticed and appropriately remedied. After all, the entire cavern for Laird was mined to 489m long to also accommodate the storage track and crossover.
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It's different geology at Laird. The issue is was at Bayview - Leaside station, not at Laird station.

You can see a typical Leaside borehole log at https://files.ontario.ca/moe_mapping/downloads/2Water/Wells_pdfs/727/7278792.pdf - as you can see from 30 feet to 60 feet is sand, with sandy clay/silt on top, and clay underneath.

But at Laird (https://files.ontario.ca/moe_mapping/downloads/2Water/Wells_pdfs/726/7263118.pdf) there's silt in the matrix all the way to the bottom, at 80 feet.

I think the log I did in the 1990s said "flowing sands" - but it was a long time ago - and before drillers had to submit their own (typically under-described) logs to the Ministry.
Laird Station
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Leaside Station
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PurplePinky said:
Most of those nervous Nellie’s do not have any engineering or design background.

Wonder if that would help their understanding?
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The drawings no doubt have a PEng stamp on them, and probably a ML signoff…but that’s not the point.
The prevailing mindset especially in a P3 relationship becomes “just build it, and get paid, and let the politicians get their victory photo op, and if it sinks some day, that’s not our problem and if it happens our lawyers can handle it”.
Along comes TTC and who say, “if this thing develops a problem in five years, we as operator will inherit the cost, and the potential dispruption and reputational impact, so fix it now and avoid the risk”.
Whatever the present showstoppers might be, I’m with the TTC on this one…. Take the time and don’t cut any corners.

- Paul

-
 
I can hardly wait to see how it performs in a Toronto winter.

The TTC already pulls bus routes during snowstorms, what’s going to happen with the LRT?

Fun days ahead, if it ever opens. Fingers crossed!
 
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