[bearcat]

So does this mean the goal of opening in september is in jeopardy?

Well the article says the "bedding in" alone could be up to 3 months!!!

And "the revenue service demonstration could extend beyond 30 days, as the line needs to run problem-free for three consecutive weeks".

I don't think September is happening.

Lmao, maybe it won't open this year after all.

 

[stevensontransit]

Well the article says the "bedding in" alone could be up to 3 months!!!

And "the revenue service demonstration could extend beyond 30 days, as the line needs to run problem-free for three consecutive weeks".

I don't think September is happening.

Lmao, maybe it won't open this year after all.

So what i found here is the testing schedule for Line 5:

• Trial running: Wednesday to mid-July
  • Close out non-minor deficiencies by mid-July
• Revenue Service Demonstration: mid-July to mid-August
• Substantial Completion milestone: mid-August
• Bedding In Period: mid-August to early November
• Revenue Service: Late October (note the overlap)
• Close out minor deficiencies:

So do you believe this is the most likely scenario?

 

[bearcat]

So what i found here is the testing schedule for Line 5:

• Trial running: Wednesday to mid-July
  • Close out non-minor deficiencies by mid-July
• Revenue Service Demonstration: mid-July to mid-August
• Substantial Completion milestone: mid-August
• Bedding In Period: mid-August to early November
• Revenue Service: Late October (note the overlap)
• Close out minor deficiencies:

So do you believe this is the most likely scenario?

I mean this seems reasonable, provided all the testing runs smoothly. The Star article posted seems to suggest potentially an opening in "phases", so perhaps revenue service for part of the line will start in October and the line will full open in November? I am 100% speculating here.

 

[bearcat]

thanks for the hint

Lmao it's not a hint, I have no inside knowledge whatsoever. I am just going by what's posted in this thread . Your guess is as good as mine on when it opens. And I am very excited for when it does!

I mean I wish it was open back in the early 2000's. It would have saved me so much time travelling from Eglinton West station to Mount Pleasant and Eglinton to go to high school .

 

[Racer_77]

Yeah, based on the pale white lines (wonder if this was cropped from another internal document) this seems to be the rough schedule:

• Trial running: Wednesday to mid-July
  • Close out non-minor deficiencies by mid-July
• Revenue Service Demonstration: mid-July to mid-August
• Substantial Completion milestone: mid-August
• Bedding In Period: mid-August to early November
• Revenue Service: Late October (note the overlap)
• Close out minor deficiencies:

Looks like The Star found that internal document

The mention of "opening in phases" might also explain why revenue service and bedding-in overlap.

 

[stevensontransit]

Looks like The Star found that internal document

The mention of "opening in phases" might also explain why revenue service and bedding-in overlap.

so what is bedding in?

 

[TOtramz]

So we’re probably not looking at September but probably opening this year.

I guess this makes betting easier?

 

[Racer_77]

so what is bedding in?

Guess it's finally time for me to read the report @bearcat

Here's the report (10 MB PDF download link). Section 6.6.2 describes both bedding-in and a soft start:

Bedding in can be defined as a period early in the life of a system in which latent
problems surface. Bedding in can either take place before revenue service or after
revenue service begins. On the contractual side, a bedding-in period involves
a lessening or lowering of deductions against the maintainer on certain key
performance indicators (KPIs) related to quality and service failures, to account
for the expected learning curve at the beginning of the operation of a new system.

A soft start can be defined as a gradual opening of a system, with increasing public
service over time.

Traianopoulos, of Infrastructure Ontario, acknowledged that bidders prefer a bedding-in
period in the payment mechanism, because it gives everyone time to adjust once the
system goes into service, and that bidders on the OLRT1 project did in fact request one,
though the request was rejected by the City and Infrastructure Ontario.

And in 7.7.4:

As discussed in Chapter 6, the City could have continued running the system in public service conditions
(but without passengers) to work out “bugs” in the system – what some witnesses
described as a bedding-in period before revenue service.

So basically "seeing what issues pop up as we run things, without passengers". While a soft start is a partial opening. The report almost conflates the two terms at points, which isn't helping much, but I think that's the intent.

Recommendations are in section 17.5 (emphasis added):

Bedding-In Periods​

38. The relevant project contracts should account for a bedding-in period prior to public
service (revenue service) – a period of extensive running of the fully integrated
system in real operating conditions prior to public launch. Such a bedding-in period
gives operations and maintenance staff real-time experience of the system before
the public is asked to rely on it. The length of the bedding-in period should:
a. Be appropriate to the project (including its technical complexity and inherent
risk profile);
b. Account for any aspects of the project that increase the risk of hidden issues
arising; and
c. Include a series of predetermined troubleshooting scenarios that mimic the kinds
of incidents that could arise during public service. This will allow all involved
in the operation and maintenance of the infrastructure to learn and foster a collaborative relationship between those who will be directly involved once the
asset begins serving the public.
39. Greater consideration should be given to a gradual or soft start to public service
(revenue service), particularly when all systems and infrastructure on a project are
new. This should be accounted for in the relevant project contracts.
40. On a new system or where the private sector is providing services after completion
of construction, such as maintenance or operations, the relevant project contracts
should provide for a bedding-in period in the payment mechanism following the
start of revenue service – that is, a period of time following revenue service where
deductions are not applied in full.

 

[nfitz]

Yeah, based on the pale white lines (wonder if this was cropped from another internal document) this seems to be the rough schedule:

• Trial running: Wednesday to mid-July
  • Close out non-minor deficiencies by mid-July
• Revenue Service Demonstration: mid-July to mid-August
• Substantial Completion milestone: mid-August
• Bedding In Period: mid-August to early November
• Revenue Service: Late October (note the overlap)
• Close out minor deficiencies:

Based on the Star article, you are correct (almost makes me wonder if your comment isn't entirely based on that image!

So if they achieve this schedule, then it not only misses the September board (August 31), but it also misses the October board (October 12). And a late October soft opening (Revenue Service) without the busing changes (so the bus service is duplicated along Eglinton). With presumably a full TTC schedule transition on November 16.

Putting the axis they cut off, back on:

 

[Steve X]

Based on the Star article, you are correct (almost makes me wonder if your comment isn't entirely based on that image!

So if they achieve this schedule, then it not only misses the September board (August 31), but it also misses the October board (October 12). And a late October soft opening (Revenue Service) without the busing changes (so the bus service is duplicated along Eglinton). With presumably a full TTC schedule transition on November 16.

Putting the axis they cut off, back on:
View attachment 661993

This late November board changes really sounds about right now

 

[Towered]

Let's just fill the tunnel with micro retail units and call it a day.

 

[unrealestate]

TTC is all of a sudden super concerned about the public's experience using TTC in a reliable way. Only because this is a high profile, highly anticipated launch with eyes on them

 

[evandyk]

Let's just fill the tunnel with micro retail units and call it a day.

Let's fill the tunnel with Metrolinx VPs and call it a day.

 

[Metroscapes]

TTC is all of a sudden super concerned about the public's experience using TTC in a reliable way. Only because this is a high profile, highly anticipated launch with eyes on them

I'm sure some blame can be shared with Ottawa.

 

[TOtramz]

Based on the Star article, you are correct (almost makes me wonder if your comment isn't entirely based on that image!

So if they achieve this schedule, then it not only misses the September board (August 31), but it also misses the October board (October 12). And a late October soft opening (Revenue Service) without the busing changes (so the bus service is duplicated along Eglinton). With presumably a full TTC schedule transition on November 16.

Putting the axis they cut off, back on:
View attachment 661993

I think it was mentioned a few years ago that metrolinx doesn't want to have a gradual phase-in opening......

Unless the overlap basically means revenue service with extra quality assurance monitoring