[hw621]

Someone told my wife there would be trains every 90 seconds. I told her I didn't think that was right and it would be more like 2.5 to 3 minutes. Guess my hunch was close enough

I doubt we will see that kind of frequency, especially on the ground section, due to signals, cars blocking intersections, accidents and all...

 

[robmausser]

Still "hunting" through Metrolinx websites today (as of 10:30 AM), and NOTHING about handing over to the TTC from Metrolinx. Not very "transparent".

I don't think its something Metrolinx wanted or is particularly fond of.

 

[robmausser]

Any indication that the dates line up for a September opening?

If all goes well, yes. This gives enough time for the TTC burn in, barring no major issues.

 

[chrisw]

[*]As of today/yesterday all control was handed over to TTC - all movement on the line governed by the TTC at Hillcrest now
[/LIST]

TheStar quotes it as Today or Tomorrow. Maybe it's happening tomorrow.

“Major milestones have been met,” Lindsay said at a press conference to announce the groundbreaking of the East Harbour Transit Hub. “As of today or tomorrow, movement of trains on the line is actually governed by the TTC, as it will be when the line is in revenue service.”

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

The 2000 passengers per hour per direction limitation for mixed operation buses is structurally flawed because it assumes only 40ft buses and they make buses longer than 40ft. The City of Toronto owns a number of them and if you are running a bus more often than every 7.5 minutes they are a very obvious thing to use. In practice, Brampton Transit regularly sees crushloading on articulated buses in excess of 90 people, and it can exceed 100 people. You do not in fact want crushloading of buses or LRVs because it results in extended dwell times. That said, an articulated bus can comfortably handle around 75 people without protracted dwell times, which would bump mixed traffic capacity to 3000 people per hour per direction.

 

[afransen]

I doubt we will see that kind of frequency, especially on the ground section, due to signals, cars blocking intersections, accidents and all...

I think the only way to achieve it without bunching is to short turn trains for the underground section.

I imagine that they will have some trains out of service at all times as spares or for maintenance, so I would guess headways will be in the 3.5 to 4 minute range at best.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I had to use the waybackmachine to look up the factsheet as the website is now rerouting elsewhere.

View attachment 659559

Let's say it's 40 minutes end to end, this will give an average speed of 28.5km/h for the entire line. This means that one train will take 1 hour 20 minutes to complete one roundtrip journey. Having all 28 trains running at the same time, it will give an hourly throughput at any given station of 21 trains yielding a frequency of 2 minutes 51 seconds. Round it up to 3 minutes to account for other factors. Pretty respectable if you think about it.

Max capacity at opening day of roughly 8,000 pphpd!

Please feel free to correct my math if there are any errors!

They wouldn't run all 28 though, you need spares, and some will always be undergoing routine maintenance. What's the realistic max frequency?

 

[Northern Light]

The 2000 passengers per hour per direction limitation for mixed operation buses is structurally flawed because it assumes only 40ft buses and they make buses longer than 40ft. The City of Toronto owns a number of them and if you are running a bus more often than every 7.5 minutes they are a very obvious thing to use. In practice, Brampton Transit regularly sees crushloading on articulated buses in excess of 90 people, and it can exceed 100 people. You do not in fact want crushloading of buses or LRVs because it results in extended dwell times. That said, an articulated bus can comfortably handle around 75 people without protracted dwell times, which would bump mixed traffic capacity to 3000 people per hour per direction.

The TTC loading standard for Artics is 77 passengers.

Service every 2 minutes, which I would call ambitious is 30 buses per hour, that's a base of 2,310 pph, of course, there is turnover, which would inflate that number.

 

[Smiffy]

Next steps: formal trial run for 14 days

If this is a full trial run, I would gladly volunteer to be a trial passenger!

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

They wouldn't run all 28 though, you need spares, and some will always be undergoing routine maintenance. What's the realistic max frequency?

Metrolinx ordered 76 individual vehicles for Line 5 while it was being built. With those 76 vehicles being arranged in trains of 2 vehicles each that makes 38 trains. 28 are being used on the line leaving 10 spare trains or 20 spare vehicles.

 

[ThenWhat]

I had to use the waybackmachine to look up the factsheet as the website is now rerouting elsewhere.

View attachment 659559

Let's say it's 40 minutes end to end, this will give an average speed of 28.5km/h for the entire line. This means that one train will take 1 hour 20 minutes to complete one roundtrip journey. Having all 28 trains running at the same time, it will give an hourly throughput at any given station of 21 trains yielding a frequency of 2 minutes 51 seconds. Round it up to 3 minutes to account for other factors. Pretty respectable if you think about it.

Max capacity at opening day of roughly 8,000 pphpd!

Please feel free to correct my math if there are any errors!

Or, if you don't want to use their promises, you can plug in your own expectation about the speed at which the trains will move (including the dwell time at the stations). The loop is 38 km, so with 28 trains the average distance between trains is about 1.36 km. On average, that 1.36 km distance includes 1 station. The interval between trains, on average, will be dwell time in 1 station + time it takes to cover 1.36 km (while stopping at red lights at intersections). This is all averages of course, there no intersections underground.

Not sure what the top speed will be. My guess for the average speed would be something like one third or one half of the top speed.

 

[nfitz]

Trains every 90 seconds is the plan for the Ontario Line.

Ultimate perhaps. I can't see it in my lifetime.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Now some of the "fine print"....

Before the project can be formally transferred over, it must reach “substantial completion,” which will require the approval of an independent certifier.​

From https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/eglinton-crosstown-lrt-train-operations-have-been-transferred-to-ttc-metrolinx-interim-ceo-says/article_88de77ab-54a4-4ede-9467-2967c85a6ddb.html

The Eglinton Crosstown LRT is one step closer to opening.

Train operations for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT have been transferred over to the TTC, Metrolinx’s interim CEO Michael Lindsay and Transportation Minister Prabmeet Sarkaria confirmed Tuesday.

“Major milestones have been met,” Lindsay said at a news conference to announce the groundbreaking of the East Harbour Transit Hub. “As of today or tomorrow, movement of trains on the line is actually governed by the TTC, as it will be when the line is in revenue service.”

This doesn’t mean that the project has officially been handed over, TTC spokesperson Stuart Green explained. In order for that to happen, the project has to reach “substantial completion,” which requires the approval of an independent certifier, Green added.

“The good news, though, is that this week, train operations were transferred into our Transit Control Centre from a temporary control centre as testing, training and construction continue,” Green said.

Operator and driver training has been completed, Lindsay confirmed, adding that “we are relentlessly stress-testing both (the) system and vehicles.”

“We’re doing the things for this line that, frankly, were not done for projects like the Ottawa LRT,” he added.

The $2.1-billion Ottawa LRT, much like the Eglinton line, was plagued with delays and flaws. Problems with the project included a massive sinkhole during construction, and after the line opened in 2019, repeated derailments and even service shutdowns caused by freezing rain. ACS Infrastructure Canada and EllisDon were part of both the Ottawa and Eglinton LRT construction consortiums.

With 25 stops stretching from Mount Dennis in the west to Kennedy in the east, the 19-kilometre Eglinton Crosstown LRT was initially meant to be ready by 2020.

A pandemic and several lawsuits, as well as software glitches, have hampered the line’s opening, even after the Star received an exclusive tour of the LRT in May 2023. The completion of the LRT had been promised, then pushed back, for three years, until the transit agency declined to give a projected opening in 2023, instead announcing it would give the public three-months’ advance notice instead.

September opening for the Crosstown​

Lindsay said “if everything goes according to plan” with the testing, the LRT is expected to open for a September or fall opening, with the caveat that “we cannot, cannot open that system if it is not going to perform.”

The province will be the one to decide an opening date, the TTC’s Green added, “when we are confident the line is ready for safe and reliable operations.”

Correction – June 17, 2025​

This article was updated from a previous version that mistakenly said the Eglinton LRT had officially been handed over to the TTC. In fact, train operations for the transit line have been transferred to the TTC.

For now, it is black smoke from the Metrolinx boardroom

 

[kaptrice]

I had to use the waybackmachine to look up the factsheet as the website is now rerouting elsewhere.

View attachment 659559

Let's say it's 40 minutes end to end, this will give an average speed of 28.5km/h for the entire line. This means that one train will take 1 hour 20 minutes to complete one roundtrip journey. Having all 28 trains running at the same time, it will give an hourly throughput at any given station of 21 trains yielding a frequency of 2 minutes 51 seconds. Round it up to 3 minutes to account for other factors. Pretty respectable if you think about it.

Max capacity at opening day of roughly 8,000 pphpd!

Please feel free to correct my math if there are any errors!

The stated capacity at the planned service level in the AM peak is in fact only 75% of this, a little under 6000.

 

[TOtramz]

So after the 14 day trial they can begin revenue demonstration? The dates do not line up for a June 22 start of demonstration, which means there won’t be 2 full TTC boards.

Unless I’m very mistaken