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Development along Eglinton Avenue East from Victoria Park to Birchmount. Close to 100 new condos/mixed use buildings have been proposed. Also this isn't including majority of the south side of Eglinton which I anticipate proposals coming in for in the coming months. Good luck to the EGLRT East corridor along this route going to be a disaster waiting to happen.

The City should get funding from each of these developers to tunnel the east side of the LRT imo in exchange for permits.

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Development along Eglinton Avenue East from Victoria Park to Birchmount. Close to 100 new condos/mixed use buildings have been proposed. Also this isn't including majority of the south side of Eglinton which I anticipate proposals coming in for in the coming months. Good luck to the EGLRT East corridor along this route going to be a disaster waiting to happen.

The City should get funding from each of these developers to tunnel the east side of the LRT imo in exchange for permits.

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:eek: :eek: You mean none of the parking lots were designated as "heritage sites"? Oh the humanity! Or inhumanity, depending on your point of view.:eek:
 

Crosstown LRT breaks through to connect Cedarvale Station with Eglinton West TTC Station

From link.

New images from the Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) construction project show a number of interesting intersects – from transit lines to where customers will soon pay for their rides.

Here’s a ‘breakdown’ – including a very real one.
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Workers at Cedarvale Station recently smashed through a concrete slab that separated the pedestrian tunnels connecting Cedarvale Station to Eglinton West TTC Station. After installing the steel that will support the opening, the team will move on to tiling and ceiling panel works. (Metrolinx photo)
 
Not true, and the stations are built for 90m trains, how much shorter do you think they could be?
An 80m train running every 3 minutes has the same capacity as a 40m train running every 90s.

This is why the Canada Line has the same ultimate capacity as the Eglinton Crosstown.
 
That would be true if the trains were all pre-loaded and just running through a tunnel. Halving the headways will add dwell time, which in turn reduces the operational speed of the line and in turn its capacity.

Though I don't disagree with your general point, that smaller vehicles more frequently may yield to comparable performance with larger vehicles less frequently. I'm just saying that it's not a directly proportional tradeoff. An engineer could probably actually math it out properly.
 
That would be true if the trains were all pre-loaded and just running through a tunnel. Halving the headways will add dwell time, which in turn reduces the operational speed of the line and in turn its capacity.
How?

If anything wouldn't halving the headways theoretically reduce dwell times since you're boarding half of the amount of passengers? Ignoring spikes of passenger inflow from sources like transferring busses, say every minute a station gets 60 passengers. A train running every 90s will on average intake 90 passengers, meanwhile a train running every 3 minutes will on average in take 180 passengers. If we assume that the former train is 2x smaller, but still has the same entry/exit throughput, nothing should change in terms of dwell times.

Furthermore, we have to consider other factors as well. Often major outliers that increase dwell times would be things like people trying to catch a train that's about to leave in the last second - holding the doors open. The more frequently that a train arrives, the smaller the chance that happens as people will be more likely to not bother to catch the train, and simply just catch the one that's coming in 90s.

Finally, the point of comparison here is the LFLRVs used on Eglinton, versus High Floor vehicles used on the Canada Line. If you look at any low floor train such as the Alstom Citadis Spirit, you'll notice how irregular the door spacing on the train is. Because they need to squeeze mechanical parts like bogeys into specific parts of the trains, there are significant limitations on where doors can be placed, as well as how many doors per side. Earlier I said "If we assume that the former train is 2x smaller, but still has the same entry/exit throughput, nothing should change in terms of dwell times", however due to the limitations of low floor trains, we can't assume that they have same entry/exit throughput - the larger train in this discussion outright has a far worse throughput, and as such they have significantly worse dwell times than the smaller train.

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Ignoring spikes of passenger inflow from sources like transferring busses, say every minute a station gets 60 passengers.
The subway gets most passengers from buses. It will be the same for the Crosstown. I don't think it can be ignored.
 
The subway gets most passengers from buses. It will be the same for the Crosstown. I don't think it can be ignored.
True, I mostly ignored busses because they are such a massive variable that is difficult to integrate into a napkin model. However I do also think the difference would ultimately be negligible. In both cases, we're transferring a load of passengers from a smaller vehicle to a larger vehicle, the difference is how much larger the vehicle we're transferring to is. In the worst case scenerio, we can have multiple packed busses (say 3 or 4) arrive at the station at the exact same time, and all of the passengers all try and punch their way into a 40m train at the same time. This in turn causes a delay at the station, and results in longer dwell times. What remains in question however is A) How common would this occurrence be? Immediately this is something that will only occur during peak commuting hours, so off peak and weekend travel is unconcerned with this. Also, how many stations on the line will have this problem? If there are several stations which consistently have hordes of people trying to rush a tiny train, well it stands to reason that you probably need more capacity than what you currently are planning for. B) Assuming it is a common and major concern, how much worse is it than consistently having longer dwell times due to low floor trains? Remember we're comparing a train that has a situational point of dwell time increase, vs a vehicle with constant dwell time increases. If you're in a situation where you have such a massive influx of people that your 40m trains can't keep up, you probably need a flat capacity bump straight up.
 
How?

If anything wouldn't halving the headways theoretically reduce dwell times since you're boarding half of the amount of passengers? Ignoring spikes of passenger inflow from sources like transferring busses, say every minute a station gets 60 passengers. A train running every 90s will on average intake 90 passengers, meanwhile a train running every 3 minutes will on average in take 180 passengers. If we assume that the former train is 2x smaller, but still has the same entry/exit throughput, nothing should change in terms of dwell times.

Furthermore, we have to consider other factors as well. Often major outliers that increase dwell times would be things like people trying to catch a train that's about to leave in the last second - holding the doors open. The more frequently that a train arrives, the smaller the chance that happens as people will be more likely to not bother to catch the train, and simply just catch the one that's coming in 90s.

That's twice as many times that you have a vehicle needing to slow down, stop, open doors, close doors, and get back up to speed in order to flow the same number of passengers. What's going to be faster (extreme case), one train that makes one stop and lets ten passengers off, or ten trains that each need to make one stop in order to let one passenger off?

And even using your example of passenger behaviour with the doors closing, the counter scenario is that with twice as many trains pulling out of the stations you're twice as likely to have a passenger trying to catch the train. People are dumb. They'll grab the door on the streetcar when there's another one literally directly behind it.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that a larger number of smaller vehicles may offer advantages in some scenarios, I just don't think it's correct to assume that halving the size and doubling the frequency will necessarily work out to the same thing, in all cases.
 
That's twice as many times that you have a vehicle needing to slow down, stop, open doors, close doors, and get back up to speed in order to flow the same number of passengers. What's going to be faster (extreme case), one train that makes one stop and lets ten passengers off, or ten trains that each need to make one stop in order to let one passenger off?
No? Each individual vehicle will slow down, stop, open doors, close doors, and get back up to speed the exact same amount of times as if there were 2 or 3 times less vehicles. If we for instance took the Yonge Line and halved the train length and doubled the frequency, a passenger travelling from Finch to Union off peak would still ride the train for 25 minutes and stop at 15 stations. This doesn't change no matter how long the train is, or how close the next or previous train is, assuming everything is properly signaled. Sure the amount of cumulative stop cycles increases with high frequencies, but so what? Is there a concern that we're releasing too much break dust? Do we have some weird power problem where we don't have enough power to account for the extra power needed to counter the... uh... the increased cumulative air resistance of all trains?
And even using your example of passenger behaviour with the doors closing, the counter scenario is that with twice as many trains pulling out of the stations you're twice as likely to have a passenger trying to catch the train. People are dumb. They'll grab the door on the streetcar when there's another one literally directly behind it.
Again, you're looking at data cumulatively, and are arriving at data that is basically meaningless. Don't look at "how many times someone holds the doors open within a timeframe?", look at "what is the chance any particular train will be stopped at a station by someone holding the door, and how often would it happen in any continuous end to end journey?". If we take a pessimistic value, and say that when a train stops at a station, there's a 50% chance someone will hold the door open. Sure, if you have trains arriving at the station twice as often, then sure you're going to have a train delayed twice as often, but so what? Your average journey will still experience the same delays. What matters is that 50%, does that number go up or down as frequency increases, and it usually goes down. Sure, idiots will still try to hold the door open, but the chance that someone would want to do that goes down as the headways decrease, or at the very least, it certainly doesn't go up.
Again, I'm not disagreeing that a larger number of smaller vehicles may offer advantages in some scenarios, I just don't think it's correct to assume that halving the size and doubling the frequency will necessarily work out to the same thing, in all cases.
Correct, there are differences, however most of the actually meaningful differences do not apply here. A simple example is express services. Say you have a 2 track mainline, with passing loops at specific stations, and you want to create a skip stop service. The less frequent your trains are, the more room you have to run these express skip stop services. Lower headways means there is a much larger distance that your express trains can cover before they begin to tail the train in front of them and they need to hit a passing loop, so if you want to have more express services, then it makes sense to run longer trains at longer headways. Obviously however, none of this applies to the subway lines we're building.

The second difference is future expansion. If you build your system with longer platforms, but make it capable to run at higher frequencies in the future, increasing headways is always going to be an easier solution to increasing capacity, than increasing train and platform lengths. This is arguably the only real point the Crosstown has in its favour, if in the future we fully grade separate the line, we can run frequencies approaching 90s and massively increase capacity. However the real solution here is to design your station with expansion in mind, keeping the tunnels approaching the station as straight and flat as possible. Not to mention, people on here seem convinced that Eglinton will NEVER need more than 15kpphpd so :rolleyes:. This also further puts into question the choice of Low Floor vehicles. As the person you responded to said, the line should've been built with high floor trains, since if and when in the future the change to full grade separation happens, the low floor trains will be nothing but a detriment to the line and the service it will be trying to provide.
 
Is it true that Eglinton Station is being shifted further north to better align with the Crosstown? I saw someone mention that on another forum.
Sort of, not as much as was originally planned but they are adding to the length of the curent Eglingtion platform to provide acces to the Crosstown platform
 
Hi! Question that I'm sure has been answered before, but if it was too expensive to put underground, why wasn't the eastern portion of the Crosstown elevated? Wouldn't that have made a lot of sense in order to have grade separation across the whole line? Was this ever considered/explored by Metrolinx et al?
 

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