[mistersg1]

20 billion dollar streetcar! Another 20 billion dollars to give it high floor platforms and grade separate the eastern section!

You better believe it!

Just a question, does anyone know how long the underground stations are, I mean do they allow for the LRVs to be coupled with 2 or 3 units. If they do grade separate the eastern section, this would have to be the most expensive “light metro” built in history.

 

[JSF-1]

Someone pointing out the obvious yet again - Crosstown might end up being split in half down the road

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505937278518001666

The line is fine as it is for now. If and when the Eglinton East extension is built than we can talk about splitting the line since there will be a far better case to be made for it. Operating the Crosstown efficiently from Malvern to Renforth while half the line is at road level would be one hell of a feat, so ideally we could split the line at Science Centre after the OL opens. However we are still at least a decade at minimum away from that being a concern so the Crosstown as it is will be fine for now.

 

[duffo]

I am personally skeptical that this line will be the total failure people here are predicting. The TSP in place should be adequate to keep trains on schedule. I also don't know how they would easily convert the line into split operation, you'd need to upgrade the track infrastructure around Science Centre station pretty significantly to support the frequency of turnarounds required. In the long-term though, I think it wouldn't be a horrible idea once EELRT is on the table to split operations and extend the at-grade portion of the line down Don Mills/Gateway/Thorncliffe Park Dr to provide additional coverage to the high-density and underserved neighbourhoods down there. Something like this:

 

[toronto647]

They could also tunnel under Eglinton East so Line 5 could avoid the on street section.

lol like that is going to happen

 

[mistersg1]

I am personally skeptical that this line will be the total failure people here are predicting.

Well, would you call 510 Spadina or 512 St Clair a roaring success, the service sucks, it’s not that much quicker than a regular streetcar route (if that with the additional time of waiting for FPLT phases to end)

Furthermore, would you say that this route along with Finch West should appear on the subway diagram as equals to the other forms of rapid transit. As I said, the original Harbourfront streetcar once did appear on the map as an equal to the subway lines. I could make a case for the underground portion only being on the map, the rest of the service will again be lousy like the ROW streetcars.

 

[Steve X]

Well, would you call 510 Spadina or 512 St Clair a roaring success, the service sucks, it’s not that much quicker than a regular streetcar route (if that with the additional time of waiting for FPLT phases to end)

Furthermore, would you say that this route along with Finch West should appear on the subway diagram as equals to the other forms of rapid transit. As I said, the original Harbourfront streetcar once did appear on the map as an equal to the subway lines. I could make a case for the underground portion only being on the map, the rest of the service will again be lousy like the ROW streetcars.

Eglinton wouldn't be as ban as the 510 as the lights and stops are further apart. I don't think it would be a huge problem considering it does save rider time by not having to ride multiple escalators. The most concerning part is Victoria Park to Pharmacy section where 3 major intersections are within 500m. They really should have elevated it.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Well, lagging left should be beneficial to more drivers, as most drivers continue on straight then make a left turn at any given intersection. The main issue for lagging left (that’s fully protected) I think would be for queuing left turn vehicles potentially ending up beyond the left turn bay into the regular lanes, a leading FPLT allows the left turn bay to clear before the main green starts allowing the left turn bay to be filled again.

As I understand, the only other time you can squeeze a green in for a transit ROW would be between the barriers, that is when the intersection is under red clearance (also known as “all red”, when every light in the intersection is red)

The problem is the "left turn lane", singular. They could create "double" left turn lanes, to get more more left turners through the intersection, after the light rail vehicles get through.

 

[robmausser]

I am personally skeptical that this line will be the total failure people here are predicting. The TSP in place should be adequate to keep trains on schedule. I also don't know how they would easily convert the line into split operation, you'd need to upgrade the track infrastructure around Science Centre station pretty significantly to support the frequency of turnarounds required. In the long-term though, I think it wouldn't be a horrible idea once EELRT is on the table to split operations and extend the at-grade portion of the line down Don Mills/Gateway/Thorncliffe Park Dr to provide additional coverage to the high-density and underserved neighbourhoods down there. Something like this:

View attachment 386973

I dont think anyone here is saying that the line will be a "total failure". Just that there will be an obvious issue and pinch point with going from underground to the at-grade section that will get silly media attention, slagged by the general public, and will look unfavourable towards the whole project and other LRTs in Toronto. It will get blown out of proportion, but thats the problem. Metrolinx has an opportunity to try and remedy the situation as much as possible before it becomes front page news and causes people to dismiss the LRT as just another streetcar.

 

[ShonTron]

The problem is the "left turn lane", singular. They could create "double" left turn lanes, to get more more left turners through the intersection, after the light rail vehicles get through.

Which would require more room, and increase the distance and time it takes for pedestrians to cross the street.

Maybe instead, there should be limits on where motorists can turn left.

 

[Amare]

Metrolinx has an opportunity to try and remedy the situation as much as possible before it becomes front page news and causes people to dismiss the LRT as just another streetcar.

To that note do we really 100% know who's to blame for the lack of TSP?

Last time I checked on the issue, Metrolinx and the city were busy playing the blame game and blaming one another for the lack of TSP. To me it's always been the fault and responsibility of the City of Toronto (Toronto Transportation Services) for this madness, but do we have official confirmation?

 

[ARG1]

To that note do we really 100% know who's to blame for the lack of TSP?

Last time I checked on the issue, Metrolinx and the city were busy playing the blame game and blaming one another for the lack of TSP. To me it's always been the fault and responsibility of the City of Toronto (Toronto Transportation Services) for this madness, but do we have official confirmation?

The safest answer is probably the City, or more specific local Councillors. Otherwise, why do Hurontario and Finch West have TSP?

 

[felix123]

Pressure needs to be increased on councillors in wards along Eglinton East to demand full TSP favouring the LRT. If not, the new line will just serve as a revenue-generator for more BlogTO articles, decrying Line 5's crappiness.

(I would, but my councillor is Joe Cressy, and even if he cared about line 5, he doesn't read or respond to communications from his constituents as far as I'm aware.)

 

[mistersg1]

No one ever answered my question, do the VIVA Rapidways currently use transit signal priority?

TSP as it’s being referred to here is this nice catch all term, but how exactly is it supposed to work? Am I to believe it’s supposed to allow the vehicle in the right of way to never face a red light?

 

[smallspy]

To that note do we really 100% know who's to blame for the lack of TSP?

Last time I checked on the issue, Metrolinx and the city were busy playing the blame game and blaming one another for the lack of TSP. To me it's always been the fault and responsibility of the City of Toronto (Toronto Transportation Services) for this madness, but do we have official confirmation?

Toronto Transportation Services has long held that they don't want "transit priority" in the way that a lot of people here envision it, but have and will allow other forms of it where it makes sense to.

That said, there are detection loops placed in advance of almost all of the signalized intersections on Eglinton (some are placed well in advance), so it looks like there will be some level of pre-emptive priority in place on Eglinton.

No one ever answered my question, do the VIVA Rapidways currently use transit signal priority?

TSP as it’s being referred to here is this nice catch all term, but how exactly is it supposed to work? Am I to believe it’s supposed to allow the vehicle in the right of way to never face a red light?

The simple answer is "sometimes".

There is a pre-emptive and green-hold mode on the VIVA Rapidways, but it only gets engaged if a bus approaches that intersection more than 3 minutes late. If the bus is early or less than 3 minutes late, the priority is disabled.

Dan

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's how the TTC's TSP largely works too - only engaged if vehicles are late to increase reliability.

Metrolinx has indicated that the Crosstown will behave like this as well, if the trains are on time, they will not have priority, but will have priority if running behind schedule. It will mean longer travel times, but also should mean that the trains should run relatively on schedule. I.e. if they get held up at a light or two early on the surface run and are taking longer than they should be to get across the surface section, the last few lights will be prioritized to make sure they make the run in the planned time period.


I'm sympathetic to not having total light priority which would throw pedestrian and vehicular travel times way off, but think there should probably be some amount of normal priority for on-time vehicles. Something in between transit vehicles literally never seeing a red and having 0 priority absolutely whatsoever. Perhaps if vehicles are within 10-15 seconds of a light, the light gets extended.. reducing red-times, but not eliminating them.. My understanding is that this is largely how Kitchener's LRT operates - no total priority, but the LRVs are prioritized.