[generalcanada]

Hi! Question that I'm sure has been answered before, but if it was too expensive to put underground, why wasn't the eastern portion of the Crosstown elevated? Wouldn't that have made a lot of sense in order to have grade separation across the whole line? Was this ever considered/explored by Metrolinx et al?

Im of the opinion it should have happened. some others who were around then would know more, i think it was considered like a skytrain elevated line, but of course natural nimbyism didnt want it elevated efficient transit be damned.

20-30 years on its going to have to be upgraded anyway with high floors, better trains and elevated eastern portion

 

[M II A II R II K]

In 30 years they’ll shut down the whole line and then build a new underground subway to replace it, and have shuttle busses replace the line until the new subway opens.

 

[alexb]

Hi! Question that I'm sure has been answered before, but if it was too expensive to put underground, why wasn't the eastern portion of the Crosstown elevated? Wouldn't that have made a lot of sense in order to have grade separation across the whole line? Was this ever considered/explored by Metrolinx et al?

You can actually go to page 1354 of this thread to see what some people think of elevated transit. Now extrapolate this to the whole population and you'll understand why elevated is rarely used.

There's also accessibility issues where now you need 2 elevators at each stop. Anything above or below ground in this City is cursed. Look at the that new pedestrian bridge in Liberty Village that took 10 years to build and is already broken.

 

[EnviroTO]

In 30 years they’ll shut down the whole line and then build a new underground subway to replace it, and have shuttle busses replace the line until the new subway opens.

More likely if there are bottlenecks at certain intersections they will create an underpass, and if there are real capacity issues they will build a Lawrence Line.

 

[Amare]

In 30 years they’ll shut down the whole line and then build a new underground subway to replace it, and have shuttle busses replace the line until the new subway opens.

In 30 years the line will remain as it is, and there wont be any changes to it asides from cars being upgraded from 2 car operation to 3 car. Sorry to anyone hoping for the eastern portion of the line to be tunneled or elevated, it simply wont happen.

 

[tnarduzzi]

Metrolinx Crosstown LRT breaks through to connect Cedarvale Station with Eglinton West TTC Station​

March 24, 2022
Cedarvale Station is expected to be one of the busiest interchange stations on the line.

From the article:
> Earlier this year the at-grade team removed a portion of the retaining wall on the southwest side of the CP bridge. Now the retaining wall has been reinstated. Next up: the crew will continue widening the portion of Eglinton Avenue East adjacent to the wall.

I drove past that section last night, it is just up the hill east of Leslie intersection. Wow it looks like it is going to be an awkward s-bend to drive. Even with moving the retaining wall back it looks like the clearances are still too tight. Plus they have not widened the underpass at all, it’s going to be very tight once the bike lanes go in too.

 

[Voltz]

In 30 years the line will remain as it is, and there wont be any changes to it asides from cars being upgraded from 2 car operation to 3 car. Sorry to anyone hoping for the eastern portion of the line to be tunneled or elevated, it simply wont happen.

Yes it will be fine, there won't be a plethora of riders coming out of nowhere, the rest of the system will be in trouble if that happens, and there is already a subway and a GO line to Kennedy Station.

 

[robmausser]

In 30 years the line will remain as it is, and there wont be any changes to it asides from cars being upgraded from 2 car operation to 3 car. Sorry to anyone hoping for the eastern portion of the line to be tunneled or elevated, it simply wont happen.

I wonder if a system has ever upgraded an at-grade LRT to have a single elevated express track. Would be an interesting service pattern. Have the at-grade trains run local service and then an express 3rd track elevated in the middle on single pillars with stations only at the busiest stations/interchanges. Run one way in the AM and the other in the PM.

Probably wouldn't be worth the investment but still makes an interesting experiment.

 

[christiesplits]

Is there a breakdown in cost per km for underground versus street level?

 

[ARG1]

I wonder if a system has ever upgraded an at-grade LRT to have a single elevated express track. Would be an interesting service pattern. Have the at-grade trains run local service and then an express 3rd track elevated in the middle on single pillars with stations only at the busiest stations/interchanges. Run one way in the AM and the other in the PM.

Probably wouldn't be worth the investment but still makes an interesting experiment.

Tokyo. Virtually most elevated lines today are former at grade interurban that had grade crossings removed to improve speed. What most people are claiming to be "impossible" has been done several times before in extremely developed countries.

 

[nfitz]

Tokyo. Virtually most elevated lines today are former at grade interurban that had grade crossings removed to improve speed. What most people are claiming to be "impossible" has been done several times before in extremely developed countries.

We don't have to go to other countries - the GO/VIA line from Pape to the Don River was also at-grade, and later raised to be grade-separated, by the construction of an embankment.

 

[robmausser]

Is there a breakdown in cost per km for underground versus street level?

Yes

Subway is $300-400 Million per KM and LRT is $60-100 million per KM. Depending on many factors but those are averages.

 

[Therion]

Drove through Eglinton and Leslie yesterday, and it appears that Eglinton will be permanently one lane over the Sunnybrook ravine on the westbound portion. At least I don't see how they are squeezing in another lane without expanding the bridge and keeping the sidewalk. Is that actually the case?

 

[cplchanb]

Yes

Subway is $300-400 Million per KM and LRT is $60-100 million per KM. Depending on many factors but those are averages.

What makes it 4x the cost?!
The ect tunnel is the same diameter as the subway and have the same type of track and ATC system. The only difference I can see is third rail but surely that won't be worth $300m per km?!! Is this factoring in stations as well?

 

[robmausser]

What makes it 4x the cost?!
The ect tunnel is the same diameter as the subway and have the same type of track and ATC system. The only difference I can see is third rail but surely that won't be worth $300m per km?!! Is this factoring in stations as well?

Maybe confused: $60-100 million for at-grade (above ground LRT) $300-400 million per km to tunnel for anything. Heavy rail metro ("subway") or tunneling for an LRT (which is also a subway)

We really screwed up allowing the vernacular for a heavy rail metro system to be called a "subway". Subway just means its tunneled underground. The Eglinton LRT has a subway, when it goes underground. Thats a subway. But its not a heavy rail metro.

Ironically in Montreal they call it the Metro when it just so happens to be entirely underground. Even they aren't that stupid to call it a subway and the whole thing is literally a subway.