[urbanclient]

Projects don't slip by three years overnight.

There had to have been a point where the project was known to be 12 months behind.

That was never disclosed.

Then there had to have been a point where the project was known to be 24 months behind.

That was never disclosed.

The lack of transparency has been with us for a while.

- Paul

The TBM being stuck near the 401 was news 1-2 years ago no?

From April 2025:

Scarborough subway extension tunnelling stalled near Highway 401 for months

Metrolinx officials said the tunnel-boring machine for the Scarborough subway extension is still undergoing maintenance near Highway 401.

toronto.citynews.ca

TBM was supposed to be done digging by EOY 2024.

They're allergic to announcing bad news, even if it's a mathematical certainty that a deadline is blown.

 

[nfitz]

Projects don't slip by three years overnight.

There had to have been a point where the project was known to be 12 months behind.

That was never disclosed.

Then there had to have been a point where the project was known to be 24 months behind.

That was never disclosed.

The lack of transparency has been with us for a while.

It has; but the 2-year delay was very clearly documented in this thread, given it heavily discussed for the entire period that they were trying to rescue the TBM.

Metrolinx should be ashamed of itself for it's secrecy about this. But with up to 4 years before the next election, it's a good time to take out the trash.

 

[81-717]

And approaching 30 years after TTC voted to approve the replacement of the SRT rolling stock with the longer Mark III equipment, extend the staton platforms for longer trains, adjust the problematic curve north of Ellesmere, and refresh the infrastructure.

Recall part of the excuse of backing down on that later on was that the year or so long closure of the SRT would be for too long (even longer if they converted to LRT), and that they could avoid that with the new subway extension.

Had they gone ahead with the original plan (what was the date on that completion ... 2010?), they'd be starting to think about life-extending the quarter-century old Mark III equipment by now!

The year is 2063. The OL rolling stock is at the end of its 30-year design life, and TTC/ML debate whether to order new trains or convert the line to an LRT, before ultimately shutting down the line SRT style, to open a temporary busway a couple years later while they build a new subway line (OL 2.0, but part of the L1/L2/L4 network) to replace it over 10 years later.

 

[urbanclient]

The year is 2063. The OL rolling stock is at the end of its 30-year design life, and TTC/ML debate whether to order new trains or convert the line to an LRT, before ultimately shutting down the line SRT style, to open a temporary busway a couple years later while they build a new subway line (OL 2.0, but part of the L1/L2/L4 network) to replace it over 10 years later.

Given how stupid they have shown themselves to be, I don't discount the possibility of this actually happening.

That being said, I'd hope that Line 1/2/4 get converted to standard gauge and/or driverless trains eventually. In the far future, if automation can make construction work easier, quicker, relatively cheaper.

 

[nfitz]

That being said, I'd hope that Line 1/2/4 get converted to standard gauge ...

What benefit would you get from changing the gauge - it's ? The change to the train design is trivial. And the endless construction would be disruptive.

 

[urbanclient]

What benefit would you get from changing the gauge - it's ? The change to the train design is trivial. And the endless construction would be disruptive.

It's not necessary, but I think it would make procuring driverless trains a tad bit easier. Among other small potential benefits.

Main thing is driverless trains, which I think would be too expensive and disruptive to implement given the costs of today. ATC, PSDs, GoA4 driverless trains.

I'm hoping construction to enable driverless will be quicker and less disruptive with smarter robots or something.

 

[dullturtle06]

Spring 2026 community open houses

Join us at a community open house to help shape Scarborough’s new subway stations.

www.metrolinx.com

Metrolinx set up a station naming survey for the Line 2 Bloor-Danforth Line Extension. I added the link, its open until May 18th.

My preferences are

Lawrence - McCowan ---- Bendale Station (based off the general neigbourhood and to prevent any similar names with Sarborough Center. No Lawrence east, we already have a Lawrence and Lawrence west station)

Scarborough Center ---- Scarborough Center Station (Area known to residence as this, takes name from mall Scarborough Town Centre, and keeps the old SRT station name, no duplication)

McCowan - Sheppard --- McCowan Highlands Station (This one is tricky as it may be a future ALTO stop and should have a consistent name as one station. Its on McCowan road but its also the Highland creek water shed with both branches of the river flowing to the east and west of it. The name has gravitas to it so a highspeed train station can share the name avoiding a dundas west -bloor station issue)

 

[nfitz]

I'm fine with the current names. Bendale isn't that self-locating for non-locals, the current neighbourhood is huge. Lawrence East is simple. Though if Lawrence East is problematic because of the multiple Lawrences (which didn't stop Sheppard West recently), or if they resurrect a GO station at Lawrence East, then Bendale would be second for me.

Scarborough Centre seems a no-brainer, but I'd leave the spelling alone.

McCowan is fine even though if it ends up servicing Line 2, Line 4, Line 7, and GO. For 3 out of the 4, it's the obvious cross-street. When I think of Highland, I don't think of Sheppard, the creek is pretty small minor branch up there. The name would work better at Lawrence East - but not as well as Bendale.

 

[smallspy]

It's not necessary, but I think it would make procuring driverless trains a tad bit easier. Among other small potential benefits.

Main thing is driverless trains, which I think would be too expensive and disruptive to implement given the costs of today. ATC, PSDs, GoA4 driverless trains.

I'm hoping construction to enable driverless will be quicker and less disruptive with smarter robots or something.

The issue with buying driverless trains is that the network itself - the tunnels, ventilation, emergency exits, signage, lighting, etc. - is not designed for it. The rolling stock is irrelevant, the TRs have enough equipment in them that could in theory be operated without a driver.

But all of the stuff around the fixed plant needs to be "improved" before they can think about buying driverless trainsets.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

It's not necessary, but I think it would make procuring driverless trains a tad bit easier.

How does changing the wheels by 30-mm make procuring driverless trains easier?

 

[urbanclient]

The issue with buying driverless trains is that the network itself - the tunnels, ventilation, emergency exits, signage, lighting, etc. - is not designed for it.

Yes that too. Although I think some clarification is needed here as to how they are different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjzbYE3Mlo&t=2748s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFVMHnLAys&t=1178s

The rolling stock is irrelevant, the TRs have enough equipment in them that could in theory be operated without a driver.

As I understand it, that's not true. TRs are GoA2 currently. They actually have a cab and enclosed area dedicated to the driver; that in itself doesn't mean TR's are not GoA4 capable, but it's an indicator that they lack automation that is reliable enough to run without an attendant.

GoA3 driverless still have attendants in practice. It's not as simple as upgrading everything except the trains, to go from Line 1-like to fully driverless.

At most, the Toronto Rockets are capable of DTO from what I've found. But that doesn't necessarily mean certified for GoA3.
https://cdn.ttc.ca/-/media/Project/...odifyTorontoRocketTRTrainsetstoAccommodat.pdf

As far as I know there has never been a case where rolling stock goes from only GoA2 capable to GoA4 without modifications. If a train started out as GoA4 capable, but initially operated only in GoA2/3 modes, that's another story (e.g. Shanghai Line 10, Delhi Pink and Magenta lines).

I'm not sure if saying Toronto Rockets are GoA4 capable is what you meant. Either way, I think we agree that the cost difference between new GoA2 and GoA4 trains is small.

Vast majority of rolling stock being built is at least GoA2 capable now. Whereas TRs were retrofitted to reach that capability.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Even if TRs could be driverless they’d still keep an attendant for the sake of it so they don’t lose their job. With a new line it could be unattended because no job there already exists.

 

[urbanclient]

Even if TRs could be driverless they’d still keep an attendant for the sake of it so they don’t lose their job. With a new line it could be unattended because no job there already exists.

Yes, they'd kowtow to the union. But I'm 99.999% sure TRs are not GoA4 capable. 95% sure they're not GoA3 capable either. At least by this definition:

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/RC17-Keevill_Dave.pdf

Partly because there is no platform screen door or guideway intrusion detection system, or frontal impact detection.

 

[Vortex112]

So $10.2BN for a 3 station suburban extension that could’ve been entirely elevated and lead to demolishing an existing rapid transit line - do we think this is in the running for the worst value transportation project ever constructed in North America? I’m struggling to think of anything else in Canada at least.

 

[junctionist]

So $10.2BN for a 3 station suburban extension that could’ve been entirely elevated and lead to demolishing an existing rapid transit line - do we think this is in the running for the worst value transportation project ever constructed in North America? I’m struggling to think of anything else in Canada at least.

The SRT was hard to connect with at Kennedy, noisy, and prone to failure in the winter. Now, a dense part of the suburbs with a lot of transit ridership is getting a fast, weather-proof, and comfortable subway extension with stations in better locations than under a bridge.