[Amare]

The real head scratcher is why this extension couldn't have been built mostly above ground.

With the way the TTC is unable to maintain trackage above ground resulting in dozens of weeks of speed restrictions these days, I dont think we'd want to go that route.

That's unless they would've one with concrete track beds, but that ship has long sailed.

 

[Steve X]

With the way the TTC is unable to maintain trackage above ground resulting in dozens of weeks of speed restrictions these days, I dont think we'd want to go that route.

That's unless they would've one with concrete track beds, but that ship has long sailed.

It seems more like they don’t have the expertise and equipment to detect these minor movements till it’s too late. Then they don’t have a good plan to fix these things.

 

[duty free]

As a Scarborough resident, I don't want an elevated subway line down McCowan road.

No you can't reuse the guideway.

1. why not?

2. They were never going to repurpose the guideway of SRT. One of the proposed alignments was roughly 50% tunnelled, 50% at grade/cut and cover.

here's a link to the document: scarborough subway extension options

 

[kev1n1m]

Honestly one of the things that always bothered me was why a short tunnel under a rail line negated the entire use of the RT ROW. I don't know why we're not more determined to find solutions, especially between different levels of govt and with the rail companies. I'm sure a bridge could have been built or a grade separation ala Strachan could have been done with time, especially since the RT tunnel is adjacent to a huge city works site.

I remember when NYC found a solution to prevent the L train from being closed for years, it took a little innovation and outside-of-the-box thinking, but we seem to be completely void of this in TO and in cases like this it results in wasted billions of dollars. And absolutely the Line 2 extension should have been elevated. McCowan is mostly a residential collector until STC. When the price difference is billions, I dgaf if locals 'don't want it'

 

[smallspy]

Honestly one of the things that always bothered me was why a short tunnel under a rail line negated the entire use of the RT ROW. I don't know why we're not more determined to find solutions, especially between different levels of govt and with the rail companies. I'm sure a bridge could have been built or a grade separation ala Strachan could have been done with time, especially since the RT tunnel is adjacent to a huge city works site.

The short tunnel wasn't inherently the problem. The lack of space everywhere around it in that area was.

You have Ellesmere Station at ground level underneath the Ellesmere overpass and beside the railway alignment. The line then needs to dip under the railway, requiring a vertical separation of approximately 20 feet. Then after crossing, the line needs to not just climb from that negative 20-ish feet back to ground, but climb another 20-ish feet in order to pass overtop of Midland Ave. - and do it far enough away in order to allow for a vertically level alignment in order to build Midland Station.

And all this needs to happen in 600m of alignment.

Maybe they could have eliminated Ellesmere Station to allow the decent further to the south, but there are still very, very limited options with which you can thread a rapid transit line alignment through there.

Dan

 

[Northern Light]

McCowan is mostly a residential collector until STC. When the price difference is billions, I dgaf if locals 'don't want it'

McCowan has a great deal more residential density from Eglinton to Lawrence than does the SRT routing.

Equally, it has by far the largest employer in central Scarborough in the General Hospital.

The McCowan routing makes more sense.

It also would have allowed (had we made the decisions around this in a more timely way), for the SRT to continue running while the new subway was constructed.

 

[kev1n1m]

The short tunnel wasn't inherently the problem. The lack of space everywhere around it in that area was.

You have Ellesmere Station at ground level underneath the Ellesmere overpass and beside the railway alignment. The line then needs to dip under the railway, requiring a vertical separation of approximately 20 feet. Then after crossing, the line needs to not just climb from that negative 20-ish feet back to ground, but climb another 20-ish feet in order to pass overtop of Midland Ave. - and do it far enough away in order to allow for a vertically level alignment in order to build Midland Station.

And all this needs to happen in 600m of alignment.

Maybe they could have eliminated Ellesmere Station to allow the decent further to the south, but there are still very, very limited options with which you can thread a rapid transit line alignment through there.

Dan

All true, and all navigable.

Especially when the alternative costs $5B.

 

[NIV]

Unfortunately politics and flip flopping on designs has got us to where we are now. Fixing the SRT tunnel and entry into Kennedy would have been money well spent. Utilizing the new much larger Mark V trains and extending the system east would have eliminated the need for the proposed LRT east line also.

 

[random1458756981254]

You don’t think that ML has a duty to tell the whole story ?

Are you content knowing only the facts that Metrolinx has selectively chosen about its efforts, which are paid for by the taxpayer?

- Paul

Personally, I would hope that MX would communicate a bit more, but they have been instructed not to do so (Ford). So they are just following instructions strictly.

Don't get the feeling that just because you pay taxes (as everybody who legally works in Canada and every other developed country), you have the right to sit at the table. The entire project has been in the making for many years (20+), and finally, it has broken ground and will come to completion. If this is in 3 years or 5 years, it doesn`t really matter. Building a 7km Metro extension, under existing infrastructure, in the condition that the city is, is a challenge, doesn`t matter who the contractor is.

 

[sche]

The short tunnel wasn't inherently the problem. The lack of space everywhere around it in that area was.

You have Ellesmere Station at ground level underneath the Ellesmere overpass and beside the railway alignment. The line then needs to dip under the railway, requiring a vertical separation of approximately 20 feet. Then after crossing, the line needs to not just climb from that negative 20-ish feet back to ground, but climb another 20-ish feet in order to pass overtop of Midland Ave. - and do it far enough away in order to allow for a vertically level alignment in order to build Midland Station.

And all this needs to happen in 600m of alignment.

Maybe they could have eliminated Ellesmere Station to allow the decent further to the south, but there are still very, very limited options with which you can thread a rapid transit line alignment through there.

Dan

Demolish the Ellesmere overpass and replace with an underpass, then build the line over the railway? Or build a tall viaduct over the Ellesmere bridge, placing Ellesmere station above the overpass? There's definitely ways to solve the problem that are much, much cheaper than what we ended up doing. The SRT ROW was absolutely reusable with just a little bit of creative thinking.

Same with Kennedy, and the guideway. Guideway isn't wide enough? Surely it could be widened, or worst case just rebuilt? Kennedy station is pointing the wrong way for continuing on the SRT alignment? Could just move a few hundred metres of cut-and-cover track and build a new Kennedy station pointing in the correct direction. It's baffling that this never seemed to even be considered.

But anyway. We're already building the thing and McCowan is a somewhat better alignment, even if building it there was probably not worth the cost.

 

[christiesplits]

Cost of Scarborough Subway Extension almost doubles from initial estimate​

Cost of Scarborough Subway Extension almost doubles from initial estimate | Globalnews.ca

The Scarborough Subway Extension was first announced in 2019 as part of Ontario Premier Doug Ford's "transportation vision" with an estimated cost of $5.5 billion.

globalnews.ca

Provincial transit agency Metrolinx’s initial business case for the project pegged the cost at roughly $5.5 billion. Figures disclosed in an update for its latest board meeting show the route is now expected to cost $10.2 billion.

The agency stressed in a statement that the 2019 price was only for the construction of the route and didn’t include operating costs like lifecycle maintenance of the route, which have now been added to the tally.

 

[dowlingm]

As a Scarborough resident, I don't want an elevated subway line down McCowan road.

No you can't reuse the guideway.

Funny how that appears to have mattered in Scarborough and not in Thorncliffe/Flemingdon.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Cost of Scarborough Subway Extension almost doubles from initial estimate​

Cost of Scarborough Subway Extension almost doubles from initial estimate | Globalnews.ca

The Scarborough Subway Extension was first announced in 2019 as part of Ontario Premier Doug Ford's "transportation vision" with an estimated cost of $5.5 billion.

globalnews.ca

That second paragraph is critical as it is consistently resulting in about a doubling of the project cost.. operating a line for 30 years is expensive.

 

[dowlingm]

The ongoing love for the RT alignment here never fails to puzzle. It’s an L shape dictated by the availability of certain lands but with almost no intermediate uplift. The original sin was selling off the CNoR and everything else is merely a consequence.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That second paragraph is critical as it is consistently resulting in about a doubling of the project cost.. operating a line for 30 years is expensive.

Except he assumptions in the IBC already included operating cost:

AoD