[tripwire]

Boo, we use the Gerrard one for bottle returns quite a bit.

 

[Jonny5]

Nope. I worked the restaurant/bar industry for over a decade. No bar is going to risk losing their liquor license selling stolen booze. It's not worth it. The stolen booze gets shipped to the Arab world, where alcohol is 100 % banned in most places. People over there pay huge sums money for black market booze.

Or much closer. There's a lot of "dry communities" in the far north where alcohol gets 200%, 300% or even up to 1000% markups to smuggle it in, and it's a lot easier to smuggle it in there since there's no formal border, only the RCMP stretched very thin trying to stop it.

 

[lenaitch]

Or much closer. There's a lot of "dry communities" in the far north where alcohol gets 200%, 300% or even up to 1000% markups to smuggle it in, and it's a lot easier to smuggle it in there since there's no formal border, only the RCMP stretched very thin trying to stop it.

As with most FNTs in northern Ontario and I imagine most other provinces. No need to sully yourself or complicate your life with stolen liquor; just buy it retail and mark it up anyway.

 

[gabe]

I know it's pointless to continually point out that the Ford government *still* has done nothing to address bottle returns, and yet...

Nothing will change until Ontario elects a left wing majority government. Ford already abandoned plans for deposits on all beverage containers including non-alcoholic, which isn't all that surprising, same guy also called the green belt a scam and privatized recycling to his buddies. He really doesn't care about the environment.

As Mike Schreiner, Leader of the Green Party of Ontario said last year....


“The Ford government’s decision to abandon its plans for a deposit-return system on non-alcoholic beverage containers is a classic case of Conservatives putting corporate greed over public good.


Deposit-return programs are proven to successfully divert bottles and cans from our landfills, lakes and parks. That’s why almost every other province already has one in place.


Ontario’s existing recycling program has major shortcomings, diverting less than 50 percent of non-alcoholic beverages. Meanwhile, the alcoholic beverage deposit-return programs we already have in place have success rates of 70 to 80 percent.


This should be a no-brainer for the Ford government. But once again, the Premier is more concerned with keeping corporations happy than helping out ordinary Ontarians.”

Five-year-olds know how to recycle. Why doesn’t Doug Ford?

Deposit-return programs are proven to successfully divert bottles and cans from our landfills, lakes and parks.

gpo.ca

 

[ShonTron]

Another batch of closures on November 2:
3535 Etude Drive, Mississauga (Westwood Mall)
1355 Kingston Road, Pickering (Pickering Town Centre)
4670 Bridge Street, Niagara Falls
1225 Wonderland Road, London
891 Notre Dame Avenue, Sudbury
511 Valois Drive, Mattawa

 

[torontowest91]

shocked the one on the Queensway by Costco closed - it was pretty new too

 

[PL1]

I wonder how many will be closed after 2025 (or whenever the requirement to maintain 300 locations ends). I bet there will be a further large reduction

 

[PurplePinky]

So who is taking back the empties? Are they doing away with the deposits? Hmmmm

 

[lenaitch]

So who is taking back the empties? Are they doing away with the deposits? Hmmmm

According to the Regulations, effective 01 Jan 2026, a grocery store over (I think) 4000sqft that is licenced to sell alcohol must also accept deposit returns. Many are balking at the requirement since it will be costly in staff and space, and some are threatening to hand in their licence. It is going to be interesting to see who blinks first. If the stores dig in, I can see the government increasing the fee for the service. Otherwise, some of the smaller towns that are losing their one and only Beer Store will be SOL if their grocery store opts out.

 

[Richard White]

According to the Regulations, effective 01 Jan 2026, a grocery store over (I think) 4000sqft that is licenced to sell alcohol must also accept deposit returns. Many are balking at the requirement since it will be costly in staff and space, and some are threatening to hand in their licence. It is going to be interesting to see who blinks first. If the stores dig in, I can see the government increasing the fee for the service. Otherwise, some of the smaller towns that are losing their one and only Beer Store will be SOL if their grocery store opts out.

Honestly, I can see why grocery stores don't want to do it.

Everyday at the Greenwood/Danforth Beer Store there is a person with shopping carts as well as garbage bags full of cans and bottles.

They have their reflective vests, gloves and smock in order to make a quasi-business out of it. They stand outside the store, separating everything and none of it looks even remotely clean or sanitary.

It's not practical nor ideal to have this going on in front of or inside a Metro, Loblaws, etc. As well, the people who do this don't exactly have 1 or 2 empties.

Think about it. Who wants to wait in line at the grocery store while a dozen people return over 100 bottles at a time.

 

[Dan416]

When I was last in Montreal the machines at Metro and Super C were broken and the signs redirect you to a separate facility dedicated to returns. And there, there’s tons of what look like homeless returning tons of empties.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

From Quebec, 11 months ago...

Here's how Quebec's bottle deposit-refund system is changing on March 1​

A 10-cent fee will be applied to all your plastic bottles up to 2 litres​

As of March 1 (2025), you'll be charged 10 cents on all your plastic bottles ranging from 100 millilitres to two litres.

But you'll get your money back if you return them to one of Quebec's 3,500 participating retailers that currently have deposit-return systems.

About 1.2 billion new plastic containers will be subjected to a 10-cent deposit. Before today, the measure only applied to plastic bottles for soft drinks.

See https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/bottle-deposit-and-refund-system-consignaction-1.7471283

 

[Jonny5]

CBC has a story out on this today.

Important parts:

Dean's Ontario stores are four of the 14 grocers currently meeting the province's demands. This Jan. 1, more than 1,000 grocery stores licensed to sell beer and wine will be required to take back bottles and cans.

The empties are filthy, attract vermin and have no place in a facility that bakes fresh bread or prepares ready-to-eat meals, Dean said.
The yellowjacket bugs and fruit flies they bring have already forced him to increase his pest control costs.

"We've devoted 10 per cent of our footprint in the store to this and at the end of the day, it is actually costing us money," Dean said. "Are we really going to be continuing that investment?"

It's a question many grocers are asking, and the province may be facing an open revolt.
Both the Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers (CFIG), which represents 59 per cent of Ontario's roughly 6,000 grocery stores, and the Retail Council of Canada (RCC), the voice for larger chains such as Metro, Sobeys, Loblaw, Costco and Walmart, have indicated that many operators would rather surrender their licences than take on the Beer Store's old job.

"It's just a fact. It's not a hyperbolic statement. This will happen. So you're going to have less choice and less convenience."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-beer-store-empty-1.7630453

 

[Northern Light]

CBC has a story out on this today.

Important parts:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-beer-store-empty-1.7630453

While the grocers are exaggerating the challenge, particularly for larger sized stores; it is a hassle, and one they are no longer accustomed to.

I fully expect the deadline to be pushed and the government to bump the wholesale discount to 15% if you agree to the take backs.

That will get a higher participation rate, but far from universal.

The system, as proposed, is clunky.

Its not the way other provinces have handled it.

So, I expect, in the end, they will either shift another model; or they will end up at a 20% discount for wholesale to make it worthwhile.

 

[lenaitch]

While the grocers are exaggerating the challenge, particularly for larger sized stores; it is a hassle, and one they are no longer accustomed to.

I fully expect the deadline to be pushed and the government to bump the wholesale discount to 15% if you agree to the take backs.

That will get a higher participation rate, but far from universal.

The system, as proposed, is clunky.

Its not the way other provinces have handled it.

So, I expect, in the end, they will either shift another model; or they will end up at a 20% discount for wholesale to make it worthwhile.

The problem might be overstated, but I think it is still real. While I doubt empties would be stored in the bakery, I don't know how much area of storage that is accessible to a loading dock they an afford (or be willing) to commit. There is a food safety concern regarding non-refrigerated, non-packaged produce being stored in the same area when unwashed, cigarette-filled bottles would be stored waiting for pickup (and we don't know the pick-up cycle).

I do agree that, at the end of the day, the government will pony up more money to make it worth their while. If nothing else, they are not going to allow a situation where the lone grocer in a town that The Beer Store has already closed. turns in their licence. I can see stores that have the space dropping a sea can in the back parking lot.