Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Ontario should UP the refundable deposit on alcoholic bottles and cans. Should also include non-alcoholic containers as well. That should provide "employment" for kids.
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- Thread starter Whoaccio
- Start date
Smoke2011
New Member
I would put my money on the deposit program going away and just goes to the blue box. While there are questions to be answers. Will grocery have to accept spirit bottles and who pays for it? Is TBS going to want to take the cost on of having to pick up returns from these stores?
While the increase in the wholesale discount is enticing, to stay competitive in pricing beer and wine as a department its hard to make money.
Northern Light
Superstar
Personally, I think deposit/return is only logical if you're doing re-use. But we don't do that at all for wine/spirits, and much less so for beer than we used to.
But I understand that blue box rates are far lower than they ought to be.
Frankly, I think the wholesale discount should be 'normal' wholesale......which is to say at least a 40% discount to retail, or more or less the LCBO reselling at a modest mark-up to cost.
But that's not on the table.
15% is definitely under consideration since they've already given it to restos.
There's room for some additional changes as well.
I expect you'll see private-label wine in Ontario at some point, when that happens the grocer profit on their own lines will become much more attractive. Irresistible Wine, PC Wine, Panache Wine, Curato Wine (Longos), Kirkland Lake etc.
They may also move on minimum pricing, there are still restrictions on selling wine at less than $10.99 per 750ml. Those are some of the LCBO's best movers, volume makes up for margin.
We'll have to see.
Fritter
Active Member
While I believe Ontario should keep LCBO retail, I think the LCBO wholesale monopoly should end. Let retailers buy direct from Brewers, Wineries and Distillers, and let retailers negotiate price with the manufacturers and then add whatever mark up the retailer needs to have successful business.
torontowest91
Active Member
Isn't costco trying to launch their wine here too? But I guess they would have to buy through the lcbo as of right now?
PL1
Senior Member
I believe store labels for wine are still not permitted, but I bet that will change soon
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afransen
Senior Member
Retailers are not currently allowed to sell their own private label wine or beer. They can make it (I've see PC Corona knock-off at TBS), but they can't sell it in their own stores. I kid you not.
evandyk
Senior Member
Sadly, we don't find that hard to believe at all...
Northern Light
Superstar
The province had wanted to announce this, initially, for 2026, it may still happen; but the lobbying against it by the domestic industry has been fierce.
In countries where private label is permitted, it consumes upwards of 40% of the market, which puts a real squeeze both on domestic branded growers and importers.
FWIW, I happen to think we should permit it. But there is a case to be made for some mitigating measures.
afransen
Senior Member
I th
I think it would hurt the mass market national brands more than the small producers. I don't really care about Diageo
gabe
Senior Member
Hard liquor house brands would be nice too. I had Costco's Kirkland brand tequila once, it wasn't bad.
torontowest91
Active Member
lol knowing Doug Ford...
Northern Light
Superstar
I was thinking of wine, a business Diageo is not in, so far as I know. Also beer.
I hadn't heard them contemplating this for spirits.
afransen
Senior Member
Not sure who the big players are in wine for Ontario. Arterra?
Regardless, the mass market suds/plonk is what would be threatened by store brands.
Northern Light
Superstar
There are five/six wineries classed as large in Ontario, the definition of which is annual sales above 750,000L
Arterra
Peller
Pelee
Colio
Magnotta
Are the consistent 5
Not so sure. Bigger players have leverage to pay listings fees and to force their way on to shelves to some degree. Boutique players have no leverage. You have to look at it in the context of the grocery market more broadly.
Right now, if you don't qualify for a special exemption that some grocers offer..........
You have to pay upwards of $50,000 just to be listed in a big grocer's system. Then you pay a per store fee for being available to be ordered, then more if you want eye-level placement.
I know a lot of small vendors for whom trying to crack the shelves of one of the majors has been enormously expensive and a huge hassle.
The majors generally show own-brand preference, followed by the 'big eleven' which collectively control about 75% of name-brand space on store shelves.
(ie. Coke, P&G, Unilever, General Mills, Kellogg, Kraft-Heinz, Nestle, Pepsco, Mars, Mondalez, and Johnson & Johnson)
The small guys have a legit concern.