lenaitch
Senior Member
Some do. Having a common fare method or some kind of integration makes sense for inter-regional travel in the 'commuter shed'. It makes less sense where the ridership is primarily local or intra-regional.
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- Thread starter Jonny5
- Start date
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Got to check out a sleeper coach yesterday. The seating is designed to change into a bed. This coach was from the US. I’m not sure if anyone in Canada offers this. Is there potential for this type of service in Ontario to Manitoba or Quebec?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
What advantage does it allow over the plane? Overnight Montreal to Toronto I can see a market, but not for 24+ hour trips…
Bordercollie
Senior Member
It should be easy to integrate ONR trips into the presto fare system since it's run by the Government anyway. It would allow you to fare integrate your last mile trip. For example if you take the ONR bus to 407 station your subway GO fare up to $2.80 is free? Or North Bay Transit or OC Transportation. This also means you don't need to buy a separate ticket.
In japan your bullet train ticket includes your Tokyo local fare. When you get off the station master will adjust your fare accordingly and you pay any difference in costs when you exit.
In japan your bullet train ticket includes your Tokyo local fare. When you get off the station master will adjust your fare accordingly and you pay any difference in costs when you exit.
lenaitch
Senior Member
But for your scenario it wouldn't be just ONR (bus), it would be every municipal transit service that touches it. A single trip fare on NB Transit is $3.25. who makes up their lost revenue? Fare integration is beneficial for commuting; not so much for travelling.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The rider could pay the difference. Like paying $.50 to ride the bus to the GO train.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Doesn't answer the question. Assuming NB Transit is like every other municipal transit service, it's not a profit centre. Who makes up the difference between one bum in a seat paying $3.25 and the next one $0.50? Highway coaches are not walk on-walk off, they are booked tickets.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
I’d like to share my experiences growing up in the Frankfurt area as the center of the Rhein-Main Verkehrsverbund (RMV, think: Transport for London, but for the Frankurt and Rhine-Main Area):
In terms of fares, the same fares are applied to all types of transit, which have zones and are thus somewhat proportional to distance, a bit like GO’s price structure, just that they apply to all networks and operators. However, this is mostly meaningless in times where the “Deutschlandticket” provides a nationwide flatrate for 58 Euros (C$90).
The key point here is that the RMV collects all fares and distributes them (together with operational subsidies) to its local transit organizations, so that they can fund and expand their services. Thanks to the PRESTO card and the ridership data it automatically generates, this process would be much simpler in Ontario than for the RMV…
- Rail transit (heavy rail only, like Regional Express, Regionalbahn or S-Bahn) are the responsibilities of the States, which are funding them through transit networks. In the case of Hessen, that is the Nordhessischer Verkehrsverbund (NVV) in the Kassel Area, the Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Neckar (VRN) in its most southern county, whereas the RMV covers the vast bulk of its territory and population.
- Regional bus lines are also organized by the RMV.
- Urban and local bus lines or urban rail transit (like trams or subways) are organized by “local transit organizations”, which are sub-organizations of the RMV.
In terms of fares, the same fares are applied to all types of transit, which have zones and are thus somewhat proportional to distance, a bit like GO’s price structure, just that they apply to all networks and operators. However, this is mostly meaningless in times where the “Deutschlandticket” provides a nationwide flatrate for 58 Euros (C$90).
The key point here is that the RMV collects all fares and distributes them (together with operational subsidies) to its local transit organizations, so that they can fund and expand their services. Thanks to the PRESTO card and the ridership data it automatically generates, this process would be much simpler in Ontario than for the RMV…
Bordercollie
Senior Member
It would make sense to "hire" carriers to fill gaps and create connection points between where the edges of GO transits territory.
Like from Bradford to London. Or from KY to London, Barrie to areas North and to Owen Sound.
Like from Bradford to London. Or from KY to London, Barrie to areas North and to Owen Sound.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Fair enough (no pun intended, but in Ontario terms, where do you draw the integrated circle? I would think there has to be a reasonable level of regular commuter traffic within the area. Expecting local transit services in places like Owen Sound, Bracebridge or North Bay to be somehow integrated into the GTA seems rather silly.
Contracting out large urban transit in the GTA would be a battle royale.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
I wasn’t suggesting that the German model is suitable or desirable for Ontario, just that all the challenges we’ve heard so far (fare integration, conflicting jurisdictions, fare distribution, lack of coordination) can be overcome if there is a political will…
It has already happened with GO’s rail operations, but it’s not a pre-requisite for adapting the German model. In fact, Germany’s model worked fine with large municipal incumbants equivalent to the TTC, OC Transpo and whoever operates transit in places like London, Hamilton and KW…
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
YRT is entirely contracted out already
north-of-anything
Active Member
It seemed pretty clear to me that when Simcoe County refers to amalgamating transit services, what they're likely looking at is a Niagara Region-style solution: combining the local services such as in Bradford and Innisfil, to reduce overhead and allow better integration with Linx and Barrie Transit.
GO is still about trips to and from Toronto first and foremost, and in my opinion it should stay that way.
GO is still about trips to and from Toronto first and foremost, and in my opinion it should stay that way.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I was thinking of the TTC without actually saying it.
I still don't see the need for integration with far-flung municipal systems, as suggested up-thread, when only a minor portion of their ridership is anything other than local. That has been my point when people suggest that places like North Bay and Owen Sound should be integrated with GO and forced to use a common far system.
nfitz
Superstar
That's probably why it runs on time, has more granular schedules, and the operators strictly enforce fare policies.