[lenaitch]

Toronto needs new subway cars, or Ottawa wants to build a new light rail line, the Province and the Feds usually make a generous contribution. Does either level of Government provide any funds if Simcoe County, City of Cornwall or City of Thunder Bay wants some new busses to provide additional service?

They do, and smiley faces and big cheque photo ops help, but they are inconsistent and sometimes require the receiving municipalities to craft complex grant applications (I believe the fuel tax rebate is relatively consistent). Buying the capital items is one thing, ongoing operating and HR costs are another.

 

[Urban Sky]

They do, and smiley faces and big cheque photo ops help, but they are inconsistent and sometimes require the receiving municipalities to craft complex grant applications (I believe the fuel tax rebate is relatively consistent). Buying the capital items is one thing, ongoing operating and HR costs are another.

Sure, but providing operating funding to municipal bus operators is hardly a federal responsibility or concern, especially in a province as demographically and economically strong as Ontario…

 

[lenaitch]

Sure, but providing operating funding to municipal bus operators is hardly a federal responsibility or concern, especially in a province as demographically and economically strong as Ontario…

It could be argued that services such as municipal transit, housing, etc. aren't federal responsibilities at all but here we are.

 

[Bordercollie]

Sure, but providing operating funding to municipal bus operators is hardly a federal responsibility or concern, especially in a province as demographically and economically strong as Ontario…

Between all of those municipalities, they should be able to justify weekend service from Barrie to Collingwood. The tourists alone should make that route viable.

 

[Urban Sky]

Between all of those municipalities, they should be able to justify weekend service from Barrie to Collingwood. The tourists alone should make that route viable.

I’m not arguing against expanding municipal bus service in whatever county(ies) Barrie and Collingwood are located. I just fail to see why such local service should be co-funded by the federal taxpayer when there are multiple other layers of givernment which are much closer to such concerns…

 

[lenaitch]

Between all of those municipalities, they should be able to justify weekend service from Barrie to Collingwood. The tourists alone should make that route viable.

The Linx network is primarily intended to connect County communities for education (college/university campus'), healthcare and, to a lesser degree, employment. For example, the Midland/Penetang - Barrie route stops at RVH and Georgian College. If you want to get to Allendale you have to take Barrie transit.

It is a County-funded service and Barrie (along with Orillia) are municipalities separate from the County. Maybe it will someday grow into something more. Maybe someday GTA tourists will be willing to trudge their coolers and floatees from Allendale to Wasaga and back again, but when your primary source of income is property taxes, options are limited.

 

[DirectionNorth]

The Linx network is primarily intended to connect County communities for education (college/university campus'), healthcare and, to a lesser degree, employment. For example, the Midland/Penetang - Barrie route stops at RVH and Georgian College. If you want to get to Allendale you have to take Barrie transit.

It is a County-funded service and Barrie (along with Orillia) are municipalities separate from the County. Maybe it will someday grow into something more. Maybe someday GTA tourists will be willing to trudge their coolers and floatees from Allendale to Wasaga and back again, but when your primary source of income is property taxes, options are limited.

My opinion is that the province ought to fund a large portion of municipal transit operations; given the post-COVID number of $4 billion or in subsidy so across the province, I think 1/3 of the subsidy (up from about 10% today with the gas tax fund) is reasonable, at about $1.5 billion annually. Though you'd have to juggle other use cases (healthcare, education). To prevent municipalities taking advantage of this for short-sighted (ahem, York Region, Ottawa) tax cuts, the province could set a limit at which point their subsidy disappears, eg. service must be at least 100% of 2019 levels, going to 120% (still leaving cities with a 20% drop in taxes, if they choose) in the future. There is precedent: the province funded 50% of transit operations until Mike Harris happened.

Wasaga beachgoers is probably closer to intercity transit; the province could theoretically fund an intercity bus service as well, running a parallel "Intercity" service (with the aim of profit) and "Regional" service (a baseline service for rural residents to access the nearest big town). But that's probably yet another conversation past the one above ...

 

[Bordercollie]

My opinion is that the province ought to fund a large portion of municipal transit operations; given the post-COVID number of $4 billion or in subsidy so across the province, I think 1/3 of the subsidy (up from about 10% today with the gas tax fund) is reasonable, at about $1.5 billion annually. Though you'd have to juggle other use cases (healthcare, education). To prevent municipalities taking advantage of this for short-sighted (ahem, York Region, Ottawa) tax cuts, the province could set a limit at which point their subsidy disappears, eg. service must be at least 100% of 2019 levels, going to 120% (still leaving cities with a 20% drop in taxes, if they choose) in the future. There is precedent: the province funded 50% of transit operations until Mike Harris happened.

Wasaga beachgoers is probably closer to intercity transit; the province could theoretically fund an intercity bus service as well, running a parallel "Intercity" service (with the aim of profit) and "Regional" service (a baseline service for rural residents to access the nearest big town). But that's probably yet another conversation past the one above ...

GO transit (Bus service) from Barrie, to Wasaga Beach and then to Collingwood Owen sound is a no brainer. Hourly from 6am to midnight. Considering the number of people who travel that corridor that kind of service should be justified and would help reduce car traffic.

 

[ShonTron]

I rode Southern Ontario Transit last week. It's a great service, though Haldimand County has been antagonistic towards transit in general, and this startup in particular. I also updated the online map.

From Hamilton to Haldimand: a new transit link fills a major gap

Southern Ontario Transit provides a critical link between Hamilton and Haldimand County, but without community support, it might not last. Also, some updates to my Ontario Intercity Transport Map.

seanmarshall.ca

Sadly, SOT has suspended operations. I’m not surprised, but it’s really sad how antagonistic Haldimand County has been.

 

[Northern Light]

A question for those w/the requisite knowledge.

Would it make sense to upload Muskoka's Corridor 11 Transit Service (highway 11, Huntsville to Orillia) to either GO/or Ontario Northland?

Its a 90km route, which is notably shorter than GO's longest (route 41) which is 123km.

As currently operated, its also slightly pricier than GO.

Its currently $15 one-way, $30 roundtrip. Using GO's Presto fare for the above route, and calculating it per km, and then multiplying up to 90, I get a price point about 20% less, roughly $12 one-way and $24 round trip.

If the answer to my above question is affirmative, is Orillia the correct final stop? Or should be be Royal Victoria Hospital, Georgian College and/or Allandale?

Current trip frequency is 3x per day, using relatively small vehicles.

I assume a better southern terminus and a 20% fare reduction would stimulate ridership, but that would probably just justify full-sized coaches.

I'm curious as to whether there is any reasonable modeling for how much more ridership might exist in that corridor were it more frequent, say, every 2 hours? (or 7x per day)

****

I'm curious as to this one, because its a real, existing route, it also partially overlaps existing Ontario Northland bus service.

***

For convenience of anyone willing to humour me.........

Here's the existing Northland Schedule that overlaps:

The existing Muskoka Schedule:

Note than the 2 services combine at a frequency of 7x daily.

The Ontario Northland Fare, from Huntsville to Orillia is $35.80 one way!

Weirdly, the return trip fare is not identical (though close)

 

[Sauga89]

Apparently, Grey County is eliminating several of its transit routes. Services between Owen Sound and Dundalk, as well as between Owen Sound and Meaford, and Meaford to Craigleith, are being cut. It is citing the end of a provincial grant, which is due to run out on March 31.

 

[reaperexpress]

In January, private tour bus operator Odyssey Shuttles began operating a weekday commuter bus service between Petawawa and Ottawa along the same route as Ontario Northland. ONTC operates westbound in the morning and eastbound in the afternoon, while Odyssey does the opposite.

Eastbound:

Westbound:

Through word of mouth I heard that they are struggling to find any customers. Which is not surprising considering I only found out about the bus company through word of mouth. Hardly anyone else will have heard of the service, which explains why they're not using it.

As with other small scheduled bus lines, there are two major hurdles to the service's survival.

1. Advertising. It's not part of a larger network like Flixbus that has resources and trip planning applications to promote it. Including the trips in Ontario Northland's trip planner would go a long way to promote the service among people already using the ONTC version of the route. Since the companies run hours apart, the negative effects on ONTC's ridership would probably be minimal. The service does show up on BusBud as shown in the screenshot above, but it doesn't understand that "Via Rail (200 Tremblay Rd)" and "Ottawa Via Rail" are the same location. So if you specifically search for trips to the Via station, only ONTC trips are shown.

2. Price. As with ONTC, tickets can get pretty pricy. Exempting scheduled bus and train services from HST would improve the economic viability of rural routes such as this one, which is what the Province needs to do if it isn't going to directly introduce a subsidy program or expand Provincially-operated coach services like ONTC and GO to provide comprehensive intercity coverage.

@ShonTron FYI

 

[ShonTron]

In January, private tour bus operator Odyssey Shuttles began operating a weekday commuter bus service between Petawawa and Ottawa along the same route as Ontario Northland. ONTC operates westbound in the morning and eastbound in the afternoon, while Odyssey does the opposite.

Eastbound:
View attachment 633388
Westbound:
View attachment 633389

Through word of mouth I heard that they are struggling to find any customers. Which is not surprising considering I only found out about the bus company through word of mouth. Hardly anyone else will have heard of the service, which explains why they're not using it.

As with other small scheduled bus lines, there are two major hurdles to the service's survival.

1. Advertising. It's not part of a larger network like Flixbus that has resources and trip planning applications to promote it. Including the trips in Ontario Northland's trip planner would go a long way to promote the service among people already using the ONTC version of the route. Since the companies run hours apart, the negative effects on ONTC's ridership would probably be minimal. The service does show up on BusBud as shown in the screenshot above, but it doesn't understand that "Via Rail (200 Tremblay Rd)" and "Ottawa Via Rail" are the same location. So if you specifically search for trips to the Via station, only ONTC trips are shown.

2. Price. As with ONTC, tickets can get pretty pricy. Exempting scheduled bus and train services from HST would improve the economic viability of rural routes such as this one, which is what the Province needs to do if it isn't going to directly introduce a subsidy program or expand Provincially-operated coach services like ONTC and GO to provide comprehensive intercity coverage.

@ShonTron FYI

I sent them an email. I don’t even know where their stops are located; I assume it’s the same as Northland. I was hoping they would’ve replied.

 

[Urban Sky]

The least thing local and provincial governments could do if they are already refusing to subsidize regional bus services is to help them advertise (and that of course includes that a public operator like ONTC includes them in their schedules and ticketing system). In 3 months, this new service will fold and only then politicians will acknowledge that it ever existed…

 

[Bordercollie]

The least thing local and provincial governments could do if they are already refusing to subsidize regional bus services is to help them advertise (and that of course includes that a public operator like ONTC includes them in their schedules and ticketing system). In 3 months, this new service will fold and only then politicians will acknowledge that it ever existed…

I don't know who creates the ONTC schedule but I hardly find it convenient leaving Toronto and the north at off times of the day.

It's not designed to leave North Bay to be in Toronto for any reasonable time and same with the opposite.