[ARG1]

This tunnel remains a gigantic question mark.

It's scale is the biggest problem - we don't even know it's approximate size. There are global precedents for decently large motorway tunnels - the question of it's practical achievability is one of scale. Is it a tunnel from the 427 to the 404? That isn't as wild as it may initially seem, albeit still ambitious, but no more ambitious than projects like GO expansion. Is it a tunnel from Meadowvale to Pickering, with branches up to Markham and Brampton? That's impractically large.

My big problem honestly is the fact that its a tunnel under the 401. If you want to spend money on highway tunnels, do it literally anywhere else. Revive the Spadina Expressway as a tunnel, extend the 400 to Gardiner, extend the Gardiner to the 401 as a tunnel under Kingston Road. Do literally anything other than just plopping a tunnel under an existing highway.

 

[crs1026]

It's something none of us will have to worry about, because this fantasy dream tunnel will never be built in any lifetime.

We do need to worry.... because all the energy put into this idea will divert time attention and money away from other more deserving projects. I can see us losing five years of planning design and construction across GTA transit while the doofus chases this bad idea.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

I don't understand why you would tunnel under the 401.

If you're going to make a tunnel, wouldn't it make more sense to build a completely different tunneled highway somewhere else? Like further south and closer to downtown? If it's tunneled, you can basically build it literally anywhere you want.

It would be like building a new transit line elevated along Bloor...when there's already a subway underground. You'd obviously build a new line somewhere else to augment the existing one. You get more ridership and better coverage at the same time by putting the new line adjacent to the existing one somewhere.

Building a tunnel under an existing highway makes no sense to me. Especially considering that the 401 is 18 lanes wide because we don't have many other alternatives like other cities.

 

[PL1]

I don't understand why you would tunnel under the 401.

If you're going to make a tunnel, wouldn't it make more sense to build a completely different tunneled highway somewhere else? Like further south and closer to downtown? If it's tunneled, you can basically build it literally anywhere you want.

It would be like building a new transit line elevated along Bloor...when there's already a subway underground. You'd obviously build a new line somewhere else to augment the existing one. You get more ridership and better coverage at the same time by putting the new line adjacent to the existing one somewhere.

Building a tunnel under an existing highway makes no sense to me. Especially considering that the 401 is 18 lanes wide because we don't have many other alternatives like other cities.

The whole idea is pie-in-the-sky fantasy, and I agree it makes no sense. Anything to buy votes

 

[afransen]

I don't understand why you would tunnel under the 401.

If you're going to make a tunnel, wouldn't it make more sense to build a completely different tunneled highway somewhere else? Like further south and closer to downtown? If it's tunneled, you can basically build it literally anywhere you want.

It would be like building a new transit line elevated along Bloor...when there's already a subway underground. You'd obviously build a new line somewhere else to augment the existing one. You get more ridership and better coverage at the same time by putting the new line adjacent to the existing one somewhere.

Building a tunnel under an existing highway makes no sense to me. Especially considering that the 401 is 18 lanes wide because we don't have many other alternatives like other cities.

I think on the question of being able to build anywhere else, when they say a tunnel, I think they mean more of the cut and cover variety. Or more like a recessed stacked highway. Who even knows though, we haven't seen any kind of business case or feasibility study. I would imagine a true TBM-type tunnel would require 4 big bores to give something like the capacity envisioned. That would be pretty complicated... It would have to be deep, which would make the ramps complex, nevermind the evacuation for inevitable fires.

 

[6ixGod]

Wait, people are taking this seriously?

It’s not happening….ever. Ford knows how to get the mainstream media to talk about things they clearly don’t understand. City TV back in the day (80s, 90s and even early 2000s) were really good at investigative journalism and would have stripped Ford down if they still didn’t become morally bankrupt like they are now.

Fast forward to now, I can already see CP24 dedicating a whole 20 minutes on this topic….with their robot news anchors reading things from the teleprompter and having “boots on the ground” to say ”let’s ask people their reaction”, as if IGAF about what people think.

Invite transportation and urban planning experts onto the channel and ask them, is it feasible and will it solve anything?

The only show which actually did that was I think was Steve Paikin on TVO.
Or how about let’s wait for the feasibility report to come out which proves this entire thing is a money pit and ain’t worth a dime.

I’m not blaming Ford, he knows how to manipulate the mainstream media and social media too like 6ixBuzz.

 

[Towered]

What would even happen to the excavated material from a project of this scale? It's enough fill to basically build an artificial ski mountain from scratch, right?

Centennial Hill could use a lot more height to become even a slightly respectable local skiing venue. Problem solved.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Wait, people are taking this seriously?

It’s not happening….ever. Ford knows how to get the mainstream media to talk about things they clearly don’t understand. City TV back in the day (80s, 90s and even early 2000s) were really good at investigative journalism and would have stripped Ford down if they still didn’t become morally bankrupt like they are now.

Fast forward to now, I can already see CP24 dedicating a whole 20 minutes on this topic….with their robot news anchors reading things from the teleprompter and having “boots on the ground” to say ”let’s ask people their reaction”, as if IGAF about what people think.

Invite transportation and urban planning experts onto the channel and ask them, is it feasible and will it solve anything?

The only show which actually did that was I think was Steve Paikin on TVO.
Or how about let’s wait for the feasibility report to come out which proves this entire thing is a money pit and ain’t worth a dime.

I’m not blaming Ford, he knows how to manipulate the mainstream media and social media too like 6ixBuzz.

Again - on what scale? Toronto is currently actively excavating 24kms of subway tunnel, with plans for another 6kms more for the Yonge extension.

Why would that not only be possible, but actively underway, but A ~24KM tunnel from the 427 to 404 be impossible?

We can discuss whether it's a good value for money - whether that money would be better spent elsewhere - but It's not a wild fantasy project. Just a very large, very expensive one.

 

[MisterF]

My big problem honestly is the fact that its a tunnel under the 401. If you want to spend money on highway tunnels, do it literally anywhere else. Revive the Spadina Expressway as a tunnel, extend the 400 to Gardiner, extend the Gardiner to the 401 as a tunnel under Kingston Road. Do literally anything other than just plopping a tunnel under an existing highway.

Literally all of these are terrible ideas that would be destructive to the city even if they're built as tunnels. They died for a reason.

 

[ARG1]

Literally all of these are terrible ideas that would be destructive to the city even if they're built as tunnels. They died for a reason.

Depends on how you define destructive. If they're destructive in the sense that they will encourage more car trips into the core of Toronto, then yes they're destructive - however that can be said about literally any highway project, including but not limited to the 401 tunnel. If you're talking about the typical definition of destructive, as in they split apart neighbourhoods and destroy any sense of urban fabric, these underground highways should in theory not disrupt any part of the city above them and thus wouldn't apply. If you go to Sydney to any of the neighbourhoods they built the new motorways under, you'll have a hard time noticing that anything is weird or amiss aside from some random vents.

Please note however that I'm not actually advocating for any these projects to happen, my point is simply that if your goal is to add vehicular capacity to try and relieve congestion and building tunneled highways is on the table, a tunneled version of any of these projects will be far more effective at accomplishing that than the 401 tunnel. That's not the same thing as endorsing these ideas.

 

[leopetr]

these underground highways should in theory not disrupt any part of the city above them

As long as there are no on- or off-ramps anywhere

 

[Adjei]

I have started to like Doug Ford but I think this idea is too out there and doesn’t make much sense. The money that we will be spent on this, could probably build the proposed transit line from Burlington to Oshawa, the Ontario Line Loop, plus some of the lines mentioned in the Go 2.0.

This feels like a distraction which his detractors can use against him.

 

[lenaitch]

And highway tunnels are completely safe.

 

[Amare]

This feels like a distraction which his detractors can use against him.

That's exactly what all this fairy dust day dreaming is all about, a distraction. Which unfortunately a lot of people get sucked into, because somehow they think it's actually viable and will come to pass in any millennia.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

I don't remember if I ever shared my thoughts on this idea but this election pandering proposition is without merit, without money, and without common sense.

If there were a reality where we were ever going to tunnel anything, it would be to tunnel public transportation. This whole, "just one more lane", or, "several lanes underground" idea are silly and do nothing to address single vehicle traffic if they're all being funnelled at one point.