[JSF-1]

Couldn't they just order the regular citadis for the streetcar fleet? I had thought that the spirit was modded for more subway-like service, and the mods wouldn't be needed on the streetcar network.

It doesn't really matter in this case considering the Citadis Spirit cannot operate on the streetcar network since the vehicles are too large. They are both too wide and the modules are too long for the curves of the streetcar network. So either way Alstom will need to produce a custom fleet of Spirits (or Dualis which the Spirit is based off of) for the TTC with both narrower and shorter modules to cope with the networks tight turns. The TTC would be in the market for something similar to Sydney or Melbourne's Alstom's (with our own bespoke track-gauge of course).

 

[smallspy]

Couldn't they just order the regular citadis for the streetcar fleet? I had thought that the spirit was modded for more subway-like service, and the mods wouldn't be needed on the streetcar network.

Sure, they probably could.

But that would be an even more customized vehicle than the ones built for Finch West, Hurontario, Ottawa, etc.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

All evidence points to the Flexity Freedoms being out of production, since the last were delivered in early 2021.

I guess we'll see, as surely for maintenance ease, they'll be wanting Flexity Freedoms for the Eglinton West extensions. I'd think that would become knowledge what they've selected sooner than later.

 

[T3G]

I guess we'll see, as surely for maintenance ease, they'll be wanting Flexity Freedoms for the Eglinton West extensions. I'd think that would become knowledge what they've selected sooner than later.

I think so too. If you wave a large enough bag of cash around restarting production probably won't be that big of a problem, hence why we were able to receive an additional 60 cars for the downtown network that were identical to what we ordered in 2009 (or why New York was able to keep receiving C40LF buses from New Flyer into 2012, despite the LF line being discontinued for the general shopping public in 2009).

 

[smallspy]

I guess we'll see, as surely for maintenance ease, they'll be wanting Flexity Freedoms for the Eglinton West extensions. I'd think that would become knowledge what they've selected sooner than later.

While you are right that it would help with maintenance tasks and planning I wouldn't assume they'll be getting more Flexities for the western extension.

Edmonton bought cars from a different vendor for the expansion of the Valley Line. And their two fleets are considerably smaller than the one needed for the Crosstown once its extended.

Dan

 

[Steve X]

I wonder if they’ll short turn some of the trains. Currently the 32A isn’t very frequent not a high ridership route in Etobicoke. Replacing it with a 4 minute train is overkill and hence why they didn’t build this segment initially.

Now that it’s a subway, it’s expected to move many riders from Northern Etobicoke going to line 2 to move to this line. Will that be enough to operate full service.

If they do short turn at Mount Dennis, they might not need more trains.

 

[11th]

I wonder if they’ll short turn some of the trains. Currently the 32A isn’t very frequent not a high ridership route in Etobicoke. Replacing it with a 4 minute train is overkill and hence why they didn’t build this segment initially.

Now that it’s a subway, it’s expected to move many riders from Northern Etobicoke going to line 2 to move to this line. Will that be enough to operate full service.

If they do short turn at Mount Dennis, they might not need more trains.

It is a subway going to Renforth, which is connected to Square One by the transitway. It will have its riders.

 

[nfitz]

There's schedule changes taking effect Sunday for Line 6. With the data for next week loaded to the Triplinx trip planner, I looked at some travel times.

Looks like the (5 pm) Tuesday travel time from Finch West to Humber station is 44 minutes, compared to 46 minutes today.

Some progress ... I wonder what the time will be when they fully open it.

 

[EnviroTO]

The Finch Line will have arrived at mediocrity when Google Maps says taking Line 6 is a recommended route going from Sheppard West station to Humber College. If the fastest route is to head south and take the Wilson bus, it hasn't even reached mediocrity yet. To reach being an improvement to transit in Toronto (beyond just being a slightly improved Finch West bus route improvement) it probably needs to get to an average trip time of 38 min or less to be the mode of transportation most trips to Humber College would recommend. The original expected operating time of 33-34 minutes is like a dream outcome that seems almost unimaginable now. Unfortunately as well, if at some point people did realize this line has too many stops, there are only a few you could remove without really wanting the move the stops that remain to make them more central. The stop spacing is on average closer together than the Bloor line and the area has a long way to go before this has the urban environment of Bloor and Danforth.

 

[Steve X]

The Finch Line will have arrived at mediocrity when Google Maps says taking Line 6 is a recommended route going from Sheppard West station to Humber College. If the fastest route is to head south and take the Wilson bus, it hasn't even reached mediocrity yet. To reach being an improvement to transit in Toronto (beyond just being a slightly improved Finch West bus route improvement) it probably needs to get to an average trip time of 38 min or less to be the mode of transportation most trips to Humber College would recommend. The original expected operating time of 33-34 minutes is like a dream outcome that seems almost unimaginable now. Unfortunately as well, if at some point people did realize this line has too many stops, there are only a few you could remove without really wanting the move the stops that remain to make them more central. The stop spacing is on average closer together than the Bloor line and the area has a long way to go before this has the urban environment of Bloor and Danforth.

The whole point of Line 6 was to serve the community by having more stops. The LRT is suppose to have an advantage of being more reliable and carry more capacity than an express bus in mix traffic like the 996 Wilson Express going to Humber College. It wasn't just speed.

The fastest way from downtown to Humber College is Line 2 + 927. That'll never change. The sad part is the ride time on Line 2 + 927 from St George to Humber College (excluding 927 wait time) is around the same time to ride the entire Line 6.

 

[nfitz]

The Finch Line will have arrived at mediocrity when Google Maps says taking Line 6 is a recommended route going from Sheppard West station to Humber College. If the fastest route is to head south and take the Wilson bus, it hasn't even reached mediocrity yet.

The recommended routes I get is to take the subway up to 407 station and take the GO Bus from there to Humber College - I don't see that being beat, with the 20-minute travel time from 407 Station to Humber.

Part of the problem with taking Line 1 and then Line 6, is it says it takes a 6-minute walk from the subway to the LRT platforms - I thought they were a lot closer than that (and that doesn't include an additional 3-minute wait for a train). Is it really a 6-minute walk from the optimum place on each platform? I should check this out one day - but I struggle to think of a personal reason to go up there.

The fastest way from downtown to Humber College is Line 2 + 927. That'll never change.

From Bloor Street perhaps. But from, say Union Station, once the new GO station at Highway 27 is complete, that will be the fastest, even without a Line 6 extension. Even now taking GO to Bramalea and backtracking on the Brampton Transit bus 11 is a similar time as Line 2 + 927.

 

[duffo]

Part of the problem is the main demographic of people obsessing over this do not live along Finch. They are obsessed with end to end travel time, when the line is meant to service people living in between the two ends of the line. As noted, no LRT is beating a 20-min trip on the highway. An express highway service will always be faster than one that stops on local roads - and that's by design.

Of course there's been much discourse about the speed of the line and that presents challenges for those using it daily as well, but the shorter your trip gets, the less your overall journey time is affected by travel speed relative to waiting time (frequency). There are still improvements that could be made on both fronts, without focusing on the competitiveness of Humber College<>Finch West Station trips.

 

[EnviroTO]

Part of the problem is the main demographic of people obsessing over this do not live along Finch. They are obsessed with end to end travel time, when the line is meant to service people living in between the two ends of the line.

If it isn't about rapid transit, then it is a streetcar is it not? If the service met it's original 34 minute target it would be rapid transit. Getting times similar to a bus is just normal transit. Obviously the line is to service people living between the the ends of the two lines... but the statistics aren't much better for points along the line. To go to Emery it takes 20 minutes to travel 4.4km... that is 13km/h. The car in bad traffic is doing 22km/h.

If there is one good thing that comes from Line 6 it is the realization that signal priority needs focus, not that it is the reason the Finch LRT is slow because the bus it replaced never had transit priority, but because signal priority is the reason other routes are slow. If this understanding of the need for signal priority expands beyond Line 5 and Line 6 to be implemented on the 510, 509, and on King from Bathurst to Jarvis as a result, the failure that the Line 6 launch is will have been a great success for Toronto.

 

[Westey]

Part of the problem is the main demographic of people obsessing over this do not live along Finch. They are obsessed with end to end travel time, when the line is meant to service people living in between the two ends of the line. As noted, no LRT is beating a 20-min trip on the highway. An express highway service will always be faster than one that stops on local roads - and that's by design.

Of course there's been much discourse about the speed of the line and that presents challenges for those using it daily as well, but the shorter your trip gets, the less your overall journey time is affected by travel speed relative to waiting time (frequency). There are still improvements that could be made on both fronts, without focusing on the competitiveness of Humber College<>Finch West Station trips.

If the goal is serving people going from the corridor to the corridor, then nothing beats the bus. By its very nature, rapid transit has stops too far apart to serve all local travel. The person going from their house to school or to a local convenience store will only be using the transit for a few kilometers.
For a 4km trip, say they go 12 km/hr on bus, 20 km on LRT and 30 km/hr on Elevated Metro. That's 16, 12 and 8 minutes respectively. But you added a 7 minute walk to the LRT trip and 10 minutes to the Metro, since nothing beats a bus for a stop close to where you want.
So short distance, bus wins every time.

 

[Obsidian]

Any hypothesis why the surface sections of Line 5 is much faster than the surface section of line 6?