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Obsidian said:
The lines are operated by the same company, the TTC
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The vehicles are operated by TTC. The stations, track, systems, etc. are opererated and maintained by the consortium. It will be interesting to see how that O&M will be handled on the four projects they announced in 2019 (Line 1, Line 2, Line 5 extesions and Ontario Line 3). They seem to have learned some lessons by having multiple small construction projects, rather than a huge overarching project.
 
The breakin and testing period on Line 5 was much longer than Line 6, and Line 5 has been running 2-unit trams as opposed to one unit on Line 6. The lines differ significantly in the amount of curvature that trams negotiate per trip, and the working radius of these curves differs. So, to be charitable, I would allow that there may be some small but real differences in the current wheel and rail profiles and the burn-in status of the two lines.

But the smoking gun seems to be the Citadis vehicles, which seem to be equally grindy in Ottawa. Perhaps they are indeed of lesser quality in suspension.

There are a lot of differences in how the two lines operate their vehicles, and more than likely in the underlying construction methods and materials. So it's plausible over all that there are differences that riders can detect.

Other than swapping out trams and trying each on the other line - which is technically problemmatic and unlikely to ever be needed - I can't see anyone proving anything one way or the other, too many variables at play.

it is what it is.

- Paul
 
Obsidian said:
Which is for maintenance, not operation
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TTC is operating the cars on Line 6, but Mosaic is doing most of the other operations. In particular the signals and other systems.

crs1026 said:
Other than swapping out trams and trying each on the other line - which is technically problemmatic and unlikely to ever be needed - I can't see anyone proving anything one way or the other, too many variables at play.
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I don't see how there's much doubt that the Citadis vehicles are part of the Finch problem. Wasn't there a wheel assembly redesign going on. I wonder how much that would change things.

Here's the most recent Ottawa report I can find. From CBC - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/otta...e-linked-to-overloading-expert-says-9.7056019
 
crs1026 said:
Other than swapping out trams and trying each on the other line - which is technically problemmatic and unlikely to ever be needed -
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Dont speak too soon. The existing Crosstown vehicles are no longer being made. Once the Eglinton line wants to upgrade to longer trains, I wholly expect MX to chose Alstom Citadis as the new trains, since they are the vehicles of choice for the Hurontario Line as well, and they will want to keep things similar/strike up a deal with Alstom. 2 Citadis' paired together is about the same length (96m) as 3 Flexity Freedoms (93m) Im sure the doors will fit on the platforms, even if the train is a bit longer.

I also expect MX to chose them because they are incapable of making good decisions LOL
 
robmausser said:
Dont speak too soon. The existing Crosstown vehicles are no longer being made. Once the Eglinton line wants to upgrade to longer trains, I wholly expect MX to chose Alstom Citadis as the new trains, since they are the vehicles of choice for the Hurontario Line as well, and they will want to keep things similar/strike up a deal with Alstom. 2 Citadis' paired together is about the same length (96m) as 3 Flexity Freedoms (93m) Im sure the doors will fit on the platforms, even if the train is a bit longer.
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If Metrolinx requested a price for new Flexity vehicles - that are still being manufactured for European countries - I'm sure they'd get one. They are all bespoke anyhow.

There'd have to be alterations to the Citadis design, as I doubt they'll be wanting to run 90-metre trains yet, so they'd need a 30ish-metre version.

robmausser said:
I also expect MX to chose them because they are incapable of making good decisions LOL
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And that's probably why we'll end up with Citadis.
 
So why are line 6 trains required to enter above ground stations at a crawl and cross intersections at a crawl but line 5 does not?

Is that an operational decision? Made by who?
Why are line 6 trains limited to 40kmph but line 5 trains travel as fast as cars?
Also line 5 cars do not dwell for 3 minutes. They open the door and as soon as everyone has boarded it closes the door.
That curve near number is not that sharp.

Following the same operating standard for line 6 would be a 50% improvement.

The question is why the difference in operating standard between the two?

Seems like Mosaic is the problem.
 
nfitz said:
If Metrolinx requested a price for new Flexity vehicles - that are still being manufactured for European countries - I'm sure they'd get one. They are all bespoke anyhow.

There'd have to be alterations to the Citadis design, as I doubt they'll be wanting to run 90-metre trains yet, so they'd need a 30ish-metre version.

And that's probably why we'll end up with Citadis.
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Right trying to operate a line with two different kinds of equipment on such a short line would be a nightmare.

Alstom now owns the rights to both vehicles so there is no reason why they can't be built.

Why not use them on the Hamilton LRT?

As well as the ION extension to Cambridge.
 
duffo said:
Part of the problem is the main demographic of people obsessing over this do not live along Finch. They are obsessed with end to end travel time, when the line is meant to service people living in between the two ends of the line.
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I thank god every day that such viewpoints were laughed out of the room during the construction of Line 2, as someone who lives along Bloor and is in fact quite concerned about it's speed, a factor which you seem interested in misrepresenting by describing it as "end to end travel time". Just say speed, we all know what you're talking about.
 
jmi22 said:
I thank god every day that such viewpoints were laughed out of the room during the construction of Line 2, as someone who lives along Bloor and is in fact quite concerned about it's speed, a factor which you seem interested in misrepresenting by describing it as "end to end travel time". Just say speed, we all know what you're talking about.
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man, people love to ragebait here 😅. No one is saying the line should be slow.

all I'm saying is that people are in here complaining that the LRT is slower than a non-stop highway GO bus that can go from Line 1 to Humber College in 20 mins. let's remove all the stops along the LRT and see if that makes it more useful to residents on Finch...

1770741393500.png
 
jmi22 said:
I thank god every day that such viewpoints were laughed out of the room during the construction of Line 2, as someone who lives along Bloor and is in fact quite concerned about it's speed, a factor which you seem interested in misrepresenting by describing it as "end to end travel time". Just say speed, we all know what you're talking about.
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It doesn't do either actually
 
duffo said:
all I'm saying is that people are in here complaining that the LRT is slower than a non-stop highway GO bus that can go from Line 1 to Humber College in 20 mins. let's remove all the stops along the LRT and see if that makes it more useful to residents on Finch...
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Well, the official narrative on here these days is that local transit service is verboten, and everything MUST serve a cross regional purpose, so no wonder. But I agree with you, comparing local transit and GO buses is pretty inane.
 
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