[AlvinofDiaspar]

It wouldn't have started yet, for one.

They would have had 5 public consultations though, reports to the council, 15 amendments put forward by the councillors, and lord knows how many vapid speeches.

AoD

 

[Towered]

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the timing here, and I'm working to see if I can change it.

John Street is/was/has been ridiculous and there are plenty of other examples. Entirely fair to critique the City for some of the more absurd examples of needless delay.

For all of that, your comment both ignores the many projects that do move along in a reasonable time frame and the odd one that is incredibly expeditious.

Equally, you really overstate how fast many places build. You are seemingly unaware of the years or even decades that have gone into some of those rail networks.

Lets try to keep things in the realm of the reasonable. The delay here is not, the City must do better.

Problem is, the city councilors should be unhappy - hell, the friggin' mayor should be unhappy with things like this and actively trying to change them without any prodding from citizens, because they're the actual people with the power to do so, yet it doesn't seem to happen. Where is their awareness?

 

[nstuch]

I'm going to say something extremely provocative, but the glacial pace at which we (don't) move things forward in the Anglosphere West would seriously appall East and Southeast Asians, and perhaps Gulf Arabs as well. They progress by decades in the span of a few years; we progress by a few years in the span of decades.

When was this Yonge Redesign thing first conceptualized, and then approved? Not saying that they're perfect, but if this was China or even "democratic" Taiwan or South Korea, a project of such (comparatively miniscule!) scale would long have been done by now.

take a look at the recently completed (in 3 years) Chongqing East railway station

 

[telefann]

take a look at the recently completed (in 3 years) Chongqing East railway station

View attachment 664918

Say what you want about their "authoritarianism" but if that were to be envisioned here:

a) It would be a heavily scaled-down and cheapened design, and far less ambitious in scope and function from what was originally conceptualized.

b) It would probably take upwards of 15 years of construction alone from groundbreaking to completion, never mind endless feasibility studies and consultations before that.

 

[Northern Light]

Problem is, the city councilors should be unhappy - hell, the friggin' mayor should be unhappy with things like this and actively trying to change them without any prodding from citizens, because they're the actual people with the power to do so, yet it doesn't seem to happen. Where is their awareness?

Perhaps @DSCToronto might have insight into the local councillor's seeming indifference. I don't deal with Mr. Moise that often.

 

[guavadelic]

Olivia Chow used to frequently bash John Tory with "HousingNever" to critique the city's slow moving HousingNow affordable housing initiative. A crafty councilor should return the favour on this project and its embarrassing delay.

Also, I wonder how much of the delay is the city not wanting to upset the Ford government and just punting the issue into the future. This project isn't installing "bike lanes" exclusively but will still take away car lanes.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Not out of their own volition.

AoD

And ignoring how the wider Gardiner Rehabilition has been unnecessarily stretched out and is well behind schedule. Or how the Province is paying millions for 24/7 construction when the next phases of the highway will only be dropping it to 4-lanes again in a few years..

Or the "temporary" dufferin st bridge which the city had to replace since the temporary structure aged out with a second temporary structure..

Or John St, which was approved *15* years ago with no status update.

Or the East Don Trail, which has been under construction for what, 10 years now?

The list goes on. Toronto's municipal governance is effectively incapable of building literally anything in a reasonable timeframe.

Now other parts of government are still capable - Waterfront Toronto, MTO, even Metrolinx can do things when a fire is lit under it's proverbial a**. Toronto doesn't have a single positive example of reasonable procurement and construction timelines in at least the last decade.

Honestly a lot of the most delayed projects have been delayed due to "coordination" issues. John St was pushed back years because the City wanted to wait to some hypothetical time when there were 0 condo proposals remaining along the street. This is delayed because god forbid they rebuild the Queen/Yonge intersection while the OL is underway. The city is far too quick to slam the "defer" button on these.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And ignoring how the wider Gardiner Rehabilition has been unnecessarily stretched out and is well behind schedule. Or how the Province is paying millions for 24/7 construction when the next phases of the highway will only be dropping it to 4-lanes again in a few years..

Or the "temporary" dufferin st bridge which the city had to replace since the temporary structure aged out with a second temporary structure..

Or John St, which was approved *15* years ago with no status update.

Or the East Don Trail, which has been under construction for what, 10 years now?

The list goes on. Toronto's municipal governance is effectively incapable of building literally anything in a reasonable timeframe.

Now other parts of government are still capable - Waterfront Toronto, MTO, even Metrolinx can do things when a fire is lit under it's proverbial a**. Toronto doesn't have a single positive example of reasonable procurement and construction timelines in at least the last decade.

Honestly a lot of the most delayed projects have been delayed due to "coordination" issues. John St was pushed back years because the City wanted to wait to some hypothetical time when there were 0 condo proposals remaining along the street. This is delayed because god forbid they rebuild the Queen/Yonge intersection while the OL is underway. The city is far too quick to slam the "defer" button on these.

I think there are some decent examples of public space implementation (e.g. Berczy Park) and TPL is another example - but it is very clear they had local champions that saw the projects through.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

And ignoring how the wider Gardiner Rehabilition has been unnecessarily stretched out and is well behind schedule. Or how the Province is paying millions for 24/7 construction when the next phases of the highway will only be dropping it to 4-lanes again in a few years..

I am ignoring nothing, that's always a silly comment when anyone puts that in my direction.

The City is managing the Gardiner speed up, not the province. Yes, the Premier championed it and paid for it, so credit where its due, but staff executed what was asked for....

.......Or John St, which was approved *15* years ago with no status update.

There is an update. Was it timely? No. I also mentioned John Street.

Or the East Don Trail, which has been under construction for what, 10 years now?

That really is two things.....Metrolinx, which been an enormous PITA on this project and the Lower Don....

And the problems w/the golf course, plus the former councillor (Minnan-Wong)

That's not to say certain elements could not have been done faster, but nothing would be open.....

The TRCA by the way are managing this project.

The list goes on. Toronto's municipal governance is effectively incapable of building literally anything in a reasonable timeframe.

Over done, as noted by @AlvinofDiaspar above, I could list many more projects.............but really can we just please cut the hyperbole.

Most of you here, with respect, spend exactly no time trying to make the City function better, you just complain. I meddle often..........I just sent two emails this morning.

Full credit to those here who volunteer when I call for people and make FOIs happen and other pieces of the machinery move when my name can't be seen to be the one doing that. I greatly appreciate that.

I also want to thank those that take the time to phone/email when I suggest that and provide contact info........... it does make a difference.

Lots of room for improvement though, no question.

Honestly a lot of the most delayed projects have been delayed due to "coordination" issues. John St

Hydro was a much bigger factor in the delays. The refusal of successive mayors to bring shareholder direction to bear on management is a real problem. (I would allocate about 4 years of the delay to them) but don't forget my good friend (really) Dave Meslin who fought this initially because he wanted bike lanes here. Just as he did with public realm improvements on Jarvis.

This is delayed because god forbid they rebuild the Queen/Yonge intersection while the OL is underway.

Probably, but I need to hear the details from inside.

The city is far too quick to slam the "defer" button on these.

Not saying this is the case here, btw, but to be clear Mx has a 'zone of control' around the Ontario Line. I suspect they can veto City projects out right. They certainly get consulted.

 

[taal]

Why do we assume the city is ignoring anything here ? Is it not a very simple answer ... $$$ ... the city doesn't have the money to spend - given the huge list of capital backlog projects - so what you see as slow to progress is really just delay tactics because the city has no short term intent on funding these projects.

 

[Northern Light]

Why do we assume the city is ignoring anything here ? Is it not a very simple answer ... $$$ ... the city doesn't have the money to spend - given the huge list of capital backlog projects - so what you see as slow to progress is really just delay tactics because the city has no short term intent on funding these projects.

That's not entirely correct.

Transportation did get a material cash infusion out of the 'new deal'. Its certainly not enough to do everything on the backlog list, or close.

But this was placeholdered for action sooner, for a while. I can stuff moved around regularly. I do not ask 'why' all the time, I would be very unpopular. But money is only one answer.

Coordination, hassles, both internal to the City and external are often at play.