[DirectionNorth]

This oddity with the usual suspects inserting “hey look at me” (ie. Montreal) into every topic is getting a bit cringe. This isn’t 1975 where the two cities were relatively equal, Toronto has far surpassed Montreal in every socioeconomic metric. The only thing literally left are number of Stanley Cup wins and total length of bike lanes….I expect Toronto to reign in on one of these in my lifetime (sorry Leafs).

For smaller cities like Montreal, Calgary etc. sure it works for them, but.a city the size of Toronto needs a balanced approach. You can’t just cut cars out of the picture.

As far as the YongeTOmorrow project goes, I like it. It’s certainly not perfect, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

The Proposal

www.yongetomorrow.ca

Torontonians can be so prone to tunnel vision, though I guess this occurs with the "primate [jurisdiction]" anywhere on the planet (see: New York).

If lots of people are saying that Montreal's urban realm is so much better, the correct course of action would be to study it and implement the elements we think would work well in a Torontonian context, not to claim everything needs to be MADE IN TORONTO™ and excuse our continuing mediocrity.

As for balanced options, the space for cars doesn't grow with more people. Build and/or utilize existing garages and take the leap to pedestrianize key destinations. Kensington Market and the Distillery District would be my first picks.

------------------------------------------

I would be happy with the Yonge Tomorrow plan as presented. Though I have doubts we will get a product before 2030, with the provincial government and timelines being what they are.

 

[T3G]

Torontonians can be so prone to tunnel vision, though I guess this occurs with the "primate [jurisdiction]" anywhere on the planet (see: New York).

If lots of people are saying that Montreal's urban realm is so much better, the correct course of action would be to study it and implement the elements we think would work well in a Torontonian context, not to claim everything needs to be MADE IN TORONTO™ and excuse our continuing mediocrity.

It's something that happens in all primate cities to some degree, but Torontonians, in my experience, get uniquely touchy at the idea that other cities do some things better. Not that this applies to all Torontonians, but enough for it to be noteworthy.

Calling Montreal and Calgary "smaller" cities, as though they both didn't have populations of upwards of a million, is also bizarre. You'd think we were trying to import ideas from Richmond Hill.

 

[Undead]

As for balanced options, the space for cars doesn't grow with more people. Build and/or utilize existing garages and take the leap to pedestrianize key destinations. Kensington Market and the Distillery District would be my first picks.

Some day people will wake up.

 

[MisterF]

This oddity with the usual suspects inserting “hey look at me” (ie. Montreal) into every topic is getting a bit cringe. This isn’t 1975 where the two cities were relatively equal, Toronto has far surpassed Montreal in every socioeconomic metric. The only thing literally left are number of Stanley Cup wins and total length of bike lanes….I expect Toronto to reign in on one of these in my lifetime (sorry Leafs).

For smaller cities like Montreal, Calgary etc. sure it works for them, but.a city the size of Toronto needs a balanced approach. You can’t just cut cars out of the picture.

And yet cities much, much bigger than Toronto have done exactly that. Maybe go visit Mexico City or New York or London or Tokyo before concluding that bigger cities need cars everywhere.

 

[guavadelic]

It's something that happens in all primate cities to some degree, but Torontonians, in my experience, get uniquely touchy at the idea that other cities do some things better. Not that this applies to all Torontonians, but enough for it to be noteworthy.

Calling Montreal and Calgary "smaller" cities, as though they both didn't have populations of upwards of a million, is also bizarre. You'd think we were trying to import ideas from Richmond Hill.

Back in high school, a teacher of ours went off on one of our classmates who had the gall to suggest Germany had a better transit system than the TTC. We were on a school trip where we were taking the TTC, the student was telling friends about how impressed he was with the transit systems he rode in Germany during a visit that summer and the teacher overheard it. The teacher seemed incredulous at the suggestion that there was a better transit system than the TTC out there.

 

[Towered]

Back in high school, a teacher of ours went off on one of our classmates who had the gall to suggest Germany had a better transit system than the TTC. We were on a school trip where we were taking the TTC, the student was telling friends about how impressed he was with the transit systems he rode in Germany during a visit that summer and the teacher overheard it. The teacher seemed incredulous at the suggestion that there was a better transit system than the TTC out there.

Why was he offended? It's pretty common knowledge that transit systems in Germany in particular, and Europe in general, are superior to ours. Sounds like that teacher hadn't traveled much.

 

[just east of the creek]

This oddity with the usual suspects inserting “hey look at me” (ie. Montreal) into every topic is getting a bit cringe. This isn’t 1975 where the two cities were relatively equal, Toronto has far surpassed Montreal in every socioeconomic metric. The only thing literally left are number of Stanley Cup wins and total length of bike lanes….I expect Toronto to reign in on one of these in my lifetime (sorry Leafs).

For smaller cities like Montreal, Calgary etc. sure it works for them, but.a city the size of Toronto needs a balanced approach. You can’t just cut cars out of the picture.

As far as the YongeTOmorrow project goes, I like it. It’s certainly not perfect, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

The Proposal

www.yongetomorrow.ca

Hmmmm the ‘usual suspects? Is there a list?

 

[Northern Light]

Back in high school, a teacher of ours went off on one of our classmates who had the gall to suggest Germany had a better transit system than the TTC. We were on a school trip where we were taking the TTC, the student was telling friends about how impressed he was with the transit systems he rode in Germany during a visit that summer and the teacher overheard it. The teacher seemed incredulous at the suggestion that there was a better transit system than the TTC out there.

The teacher, if their response was as stated, was obviously not well informed and a tad reactionary. There are things the TTC does do unusually well compared with many systems, that's fair (integration between modes with all the bus/streetcar terminals), as well as a very robust bus, fairly frequent bus network); but obviously, in other respects, such as well managed service and the extensiveness (or lack thereof) of subway lines, and in the beauty of stations and in communications......well, there's some work to be done.

..... It's pretty common knowledge that transit systems in Germany in particular, and Europe in general, are superior to ours. Sounds like that teacher hadn't traveled much.

As I noted above, its easy (and quite correct) to slag the TTC for the many areas in which it could and should be better; but in general, it compares more favourably than you might think.

Route 18 is the busiest bus route in London, UK the scheduled frequency never exceeds 7 minutes and is often more like 10.

A high-frequency route in London is defined as every 12M or better vs the TTC's definition of 10.

While Berlin does sport an network of express buses that run every 10M, 24/7..........its more typical routes are every 20-30M, while typical bus routes in Paris range from 15M frequency to as little as 30M

***

Of course, the above systems all enjoy much more extensive rail networks than Toronto, and its not close..........

The Tube closes at midnight every night though............not the 1:45am-2amof TTC.

Mind you, the U-Bahn is ~4am to 1am weekdays and 24-hours on Friday/Saturday.

Its all just a bit too easy for people to say better/worse..........when they ought to use more specific nomenclature.........

More extensive, more frequent, runs later, is cheaper, is more reliable, is cleaner etc etc.

 

[Northern Light]

Is there a plan online for Yonge from Richmond south to Queens Quay?

Long term yes.

Short/medium term, there will be a decent amount of work when Pinnacle is finished on the part from Lakeshore to Front. (peaks behind the curtain, currently penciled in for 2032)

North of that......TBD. Ultimately, the intent is for most Yonge to function as one lane each way from Davenport south to the Lake,with some possible exception to that in/around Lakeshore/Gardiner.

 

[Northern Light]

So..... over in the 10 St. Mary thread.......... @Red_Bulmer posted the link for this project, and I got the idea to poke my head over.......

Lo and behold there is a very modest update.

Self-evidently, detailed design is not yet done..... However, we do have a very tentative, non-committal construction start date of late 2026:

 

[Silica]

As I noted above, its easy (and quite correct) to slag the TTC for the many areas in which it could and should be better; but in general, it compares more favourably than you might think.

Route 18 is the busiest bus route in London, UK the scheduled frequency never exceeds 7 minutes and is often more like 10.

A high-frequency route in London is defined as every 12M or better vs the TTC's definition of 10.

***

Of course, the above systems all enjoy much more extensive rail networks than Toronto, and its not close..........

The Tube closes at midnight every night though............not the 1:45am-2amof TTC.

Mind you, the U-Bahn is ~4am to 1am weekdays and 24-hours on Friday/Saturday.

Its all just a bit too easy for people to say better/worse..........when they ought to use more specific nomenclature.........

More extensive, more frequent, runs later, is cheaper, is more reliable, is cleaner etc etc.

Canadian systems come off good against American systems, but there is a pretty big gulf when compared to European systems. Just the sheer capability, connections, options and quality of service over a large area.

Like you mention route 18 in London but that runs every 4-8mins from 0600 to 2300. Most bus routes tend to run every 10mins or less, and many bus routes end up bunching along many corridors resulting in super high frequencies on those corridors. Tube hours differ, with some starting super early like 0430, and some staying open until 0130, and there is 24hr operation on Friday/Saturday on some tube and other lines.

Some places simply built a lot or their infrastructure in an era that today is tough to match.

 

[LNahid2000]

They have now changed the construction start to 2030. This city is a joke...the sidewalks have been overcrowded forever and I hate walking on Yonge because of it.

Also lol @ "2030 - Upcoming". This thing will forever be done TOmorrow.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

If they are not going to start until 2030, maybe we can get going on preliminary design for College to Bloor section in the meantime so both can start consecutively.

 

[T-Bor]

I work just off Yonge and every time I walk, it blows my mind that Yonge isn't totally pedestrianized. Especially the section between Bloor and Dundas. Even during rush hour, there are barely any cars on that stretch. The traffic only starts at Queen where the offices are

 

[Towered]

For Toronto's "main street", Yonge, at least south of Bloor, kind of sucks. Just about any of the city's other retail strips are far more interesting.