[kade1064]

Two things can be true at once.

1. Monday through Thursday the mall is empty and on life support.

2. On Fridays, Weekends, and Holidays the mall does see some crowds, especially around Fantasy Fair, the Bay, and the food court.

Perhaps with new stable owners, the mall can see better weekday crowds. The biggest threat to Woodbine Mall in the future is the Woodbine Racetrack development. The current plans include adding retail around the Casino which sees 6 million visitors and generates roughly $290 million in revenue. If I am a retailer looking to expand why would I open shop at Woodbine Mall, when the Casino already sees large crowds regularly? Also, Woodbine Mall needs basic repairs done which will be costly. Long-term the mall most likely will be torn down, it makes the most economic sense. Woodbine Mall should have never been sold to Chris Hinn. If the Mall was sold to a better owner in the 2010s and quickly responded to changes in the retail field I could have seen the mall surviving but I think it is too late.

-When Target pulled out of Canada the Owners of the Mall should have looked for replacements. The Upper Floor of Target Could have been converted into a grocery store (Like Freshco), In early 2010 Planet Fitness expanded into Canada, so perhaps the Lower level could have been converted into a fitness center.
-When Sears was dying the mall could have replaced the space with a HART department store on the Lower level and pushed for Winners to move from across the street into the upper level.
-When Sportchek left the mall the space could have been converted into additional space for the Fantasy fair such as a mini golf course or some sort of entertainment for children. Considering the Fantasy Fair still draws families into the mall I am surprised the owners didn't lean into that and tried expanding.
-The mall did not have to die but due to mismanagement, it did and it most likely too late to revitalize it

Some Mall managements are VERY evil when it comes to fixing their mall

 

[kade1064]

Two things can be true at once.

1. Monday through Thursday the mall is empty and on life support.

2. On Fridays, Weekends, and Holidays the mall does see some crowds, especially around Fantasy Fair, the Bay, and the food court.

Perhaps with new stable owners, the mall can see better weekday crowds. The biggest threat to Woodbine Mall in the future is the Woodbine Racetrack development. The current plans include adding retail around the Casino which sees 6 million visitors and generates roughly $290 million in revenue. If I am a retailer looking to expand why would I open shop at Woodbine Mall, when the Casino already sees large crowds regularly? Also, Woodbine Mall needs basic repairs done which will be costly. Long-term the mall most likely will be torn down, it makes the most economic sense. Woodbine Mall should have never been sold to Chris Hinn. If the Mall was sold to a better owner in the 2010s and quickly responded to changes in the retail field I could have seen the mall surviving but I think it is too late.

-When Target pulled out of Canada the Owners of the Mall should have looked for replacements. The Upper Floor of Target Could have been converted into a grocery store (Like Freshco), In early 2010 Planet Fitness expanded into Canada, so perhaps the Lower level could have been converted into a fitness center.
-When Sears was dying the mall could have replaced the space with a HART department store on the Lower level and pushed for Winners to move from across the street into the upper level.
-When Sportchek left the mall the space could have been converted into additional space for the Fantasy fair such as a mini golf course or some sort of entertainment for children. Considering the Fantasy Fair still draws families into the mall I am surprised the owners didn't lean into that and tried expanding.
-The mall did not have to die but due to mismanagement, it did and it most likely too late to revitalize it

Also that Zellers spaces could have been so much more

 

[Mr. Rexdale]

The pinball store took me as a surprise, too. Logistically, the rent is probably cheaper than other malls in comparison.

This may come as a surprise to some of you, but I actually spent money in the Woodbine Centre last week!

I found a good deal on a pair of gaming headphones. The brand is called Commander, and the set was just $10
at the upper level Zellers liquidation. No tax.

Brand new in the box, contains a charger, USB extension cords, mic, multiple input types (USB, Audio Jack, etc.).
Thinking about getting a second pair for backup....

 

[kade1064]

The pinball store took me as a surprise, too. Logistically, the rent is probably cheaper than other malls in comparison.

View attachment 632587

This may come as a surprise to some of you, but I actually spent money in the Woodbine Centre last week!

I found a good deal on a pair of gaming headphones. The brand is called Commander, and the set was just $10
at the upper level Zellers liquidation. No tax.

Brand new in the box, contains a charger, USB extension cords, mic, multiple input types (USB, Audio Jack, etc.).
Thinking about getting a second pair for backup....

That's a STEAL

 

[MapleJoe]

Interesting thread.

I have very fond memories of Woodbine, often going with my family in its prime. In the last two years, I returned with my toddler daughter who now loves going the odd time during winters primarily. Here are some of my at random thoughts..

The mall is in a state of disrepair within a majority of the facility. The extremely cheap renovations reveal this even more so, and I feel like it would have been better to keep the original finishes in place until a more serious plan would be in place from a transformation standpoint (I understand it has been mismanaged by an inexperienced operator)

Fantasy Fair, on the surface, sustains the charm and character it has always had. A bit of a closer look reveals some of the unfortunate elements at what appears to be the only popular (And profitable?) operation of the property. Though I still take my daughter, there are plenty of accidents waiting to happen based on the condition and operation of some of the attractions. The play place, which was always awesome in the past, appears to be quite dirty and seldomly cleaned. Other rides and areas are fine. After going enough times, you know what to stick to.

It’s a complete joke to see junk/flea market like businesses within the fairs themed buildings. I understand the restaurants couldn’t make it, but cleanup the fronts and take the signs down of old businesses. Unreal! Though seems to be the trend throughout the mall.

As for why The Bay is still there? It’s nothing but an extremely cheap lease that was negotiated back in the 80’s. It may cost more to terminate the agreement, and the bottom line at the corporate level isn’t really an impact with this location. While I don’t know the terms of their agreement, I can assure you they would not renew at this location, unless the mall asks them to stay free in the interim until there is a plan in place for the property (This is a practice that has been done before I’m other examples). With that said, HBC is severely struggling as a whole, and though they won’t be going anywhere anytime soon, they will most definitely be cutting unprofitable locations which has started in other provinces already. There is no way the sales per square foot at Woodbine generates a profit for The Bay, especially with the amount of space the furniture department takes. Every other department has merchandise spread out very sparsely. The location is way too large for what it offers. The Bay will close, which will be a bad sign for the mall overall, as all other anchor spaces are dead.

As much as I’d like to remain optimistic, this mall is too large to survive, and it’s simply not feasible to attract the brands it needs to survive.

I invite you to look at the re-development of a mall in my neck of the woods, The Promenade in Thornhill. It became a dead mall when Cadillac Fairview sold it, and the new owners are redeveloping the surface lots for condos, which is slowly injecting life back into the mall. The new businesses opening are primarily food, pharmacy, healthcare, fitness and entertainment. They are light years ahead of Woodbine in transformation, and it’s not easy.

Do you think the Casino will call for a luxury mall to compliment it? Maybe.

If Woodbine survives, it needs residential dwellings within it with essential businesses to support it but as I said earlier, it’s too large. It would need to be trimmed down (Sears was fully
Torn down at Promenade for condos, as an example)

The Woodbine we know will cease to exist.

I do wish the best for this property.

 

[kade1064]

Interesting thread.

I have very fond memories of Woodbine, often going with my family in its prime. In the last two years, I returned with my toddler daughter who now loves going the odd time during winters primarily. Here are some of my at random thoughts..

The mall is in a state of disrepair within a majority of the facility. The extremely cheap renovations reveal this even more so, and I feel like it would have been better to keep the original finishes in place until a more serious plan would be in place from a transformation standpoint (I understand it has been mismanaged by an inexperienced operator)

Fantasy Fair, on the surface, sustains the charm and character it has always had. A bit of a closer look reveals some of the unfortunate elements at what appears to be the only popular (And profitable?) operation of the property. Though I still take my daughter, there are plenty of accidents waiting to happen based on the condition and operation of some of the attractions. The play place, which was always awesome in the past, appears to be quite dirty and seldomly cleaned. Other rides and areas are fine. After going enough times, you know what to stick to.

It’s a complete joke to see junk/flea market like businesses within the fairs themed buildings. I understand the restaurants couldn’t make it, but cleanup the fronts and take the signs down of old businesses. Unreal! Though seems to be the trend throughout the mall.

As for why The Bay is still there? It’s nothing but an extremely cheap lease that was negotiated back in the 80’s. It may cost more to terminate the agreement, and the bottom line at the corporate level isn’t really an impact with this location. While I don’t know the terms of their agreement, I can assure you they would not renew at this location, unless the mall asks them to stay free in the interim until there is a plan in place for the property (This is a practice that has been done before I’m other examples). With that said, HBC is severely struggling as a whole, and though they won’t be going anywhere anytime soon, they will most definitely be cutting unprofitable locations which has started in other provinces already. There is no way the sales per square foot at Woodbine generates a profit for The Bay, especially with the amount of space the furniture department takes. Every other department has merchandise spread out very sparsely. The location is way too large for what it offers. The Bay will close, which will be a bad sign for the mall overall, as all other anchor spaces are dead.

As much as I’d like to remain optimistic, this mall is too large to survive, and it’s simply not feasible to attract the brands it needs to survive.

I invite you to look at the re-development of a mall in my neck of the woods, The Promenade in Thornhill. It became a dead mall when Cadillac Fairview sold it, and the new owners are redeveloping the surface lots for condos, which is slowly injecting life back into the mall. The new businesses opening are primarily food, pharmacy, healthcare, fitness and entertainment. They are light years ahead of Woodbine in transformation, and it’s not easy.

Do you think the Casino will call for a luxury mall to compliment it? Maybe.

If Woodbine survives, it needs residential dwellings within it with essential businesses to support it but as I said earlier, it’s too large. It would need to be trimmed down (Sears was fully
Torn down at Promenade for condos, as an example)

The Woodbine we know will cease to exist.

I do wish the best for this property.

Woodbine mall needs riocan or morguard to bring life into the mall, Cine Starz...was and is a good idea, the food court needs fixing tho

 

[RGB_11]

Woodbine mall needs riocan or morguard to bring life into the mall, Cine Starz...was and is a good idea, the food court needs fixing tho

The only reason why it's Cinestarz is because Imagine Cinemas was FORCED OUT during the pandemic.
They were told rent is due no matter what. Not a care in the world about the fact that they were not allowed to have customers sit down and watch a movie during the worst of the pandemic.
The greedy bastard that owns the mall did not care. He was heartless and kept collecting rent no matter what. Cinestarz is using some of the Imagine cinema equipment that was left behind.
Rent was never paid by Imagine Cinemas during the pandemic because there was no revenue.

 

[Maco in the 6]

Cinestarz is using some of the Imagine cinema equipment that was left behind.

Are they? The previous owner was notorious for confiscating inventory/assets from tenants and auctioning it off online. Such was the fate of Clocks Unlimited, a shop specializing in rare antique clocks that was in the mall since day one. One day chains were put on the doors preventing the owner from accessing his store and the clocks were listed on some third party online auction website.

 

[RGB_11]

Are they? The previous owner was notorious for confiscating inventory/assets from tenants and auctioning it off online. Such was the fate of Clocks Unlimited, a shop specializing in rare antique clocks that was in the mall since day one. One day chains were put on the doors preventing the owner from accessing his store and the clocks were listed on some third party online auction website.

Either they bought the Imagine Cinema equipment or the landlord left everything in place to make the place look attractive for Cinestarz. I honestly don't know, but someone over at Imagine Cinemas believes that Cinestarz is using "some" of their equipment.
The mall owner could have done better to respect the fact that a pandemic was happening. Imagine Cinemas never should have been kicked out.

 

[slickpete83]

now the Woodbine mall owners can finally change the Bay into some fake Outlet store called TEMU-ALIBABA-BAY lol...

 

[kade1064]

Either they bought the Imagine Cinema equipment or the landlord left everything in place to make the place look attractive for Cinestarz. I honestly don't know, but someone over at Imagine Cinemas believes that Cinestarz is using "some" of their equipment.
The mall owner could have done better to respect the fact that a pandemic was happening. Imagine Cinemas never should have been kicked out.

I agree, should of gave [imagine cinema] some refund or something

 

[RGB_11]

now the Woodbine mall owners can finally change the Bay into some fake Outlet store called TEMU-ALIBABA-BAY lol...

The Bay is going to be around for a little while, then after going under (if it does) Woodbine's location might end up becoming an MEC outlet store, no doubt, since they were already in bed with the BAY, and maybe might want to snatch up some of the Bay leases.
It's either that, or maybe SIMONS could snatch up the space.
I do say, indeed as an outlet store. This mall would be a really good outlet mall, sort of like what Warden Woods used to be, if it can be managed right. (remember Warden "Power Centre"?)
Thow in a Roots outlet (or Roots "last chance" store, like the one on Orfus Road) and this mall should do quite well. (Thinking-if MEC or SIMONS does not want all the space, give some to Roots)

 

[Richard White]

This mall would be a really good outlet mall, sort of like what Warden Woods used to be, if it can be managed right. (remember Warden "Power Centre"?)

I shopped at Warden Power Centre for years.

It was great until they brought in the liquidation stores. At the end you had middle eastern carpet stores, a sears liquidiation store among others.

Prior to that you had quality outlets like Laura Secord, Black and Decker, Carlton Cards. You also had staples like TD Bank, Hy & Zels and Cineplex Odeon.

By the time the liquidation stores came in the mall was slated for demolition so it was to be expected.

The real shame was Morningside Mall.

I grew up in West Hill and for years Morningside Mall was our community hub. It was fair sized and had all the stores you needed from Woolco to Dominion.

Unfortunately around 1999/2000, they brought in alot of ethnic and discount stores and the mall tanked. It was Scarboroughs version of Woodbine Mall.

 

[RGB_11]

I shopped at Warden Power Centre for years.

It was great until they brought in the liquidation stores. At the end you had middle eastern carpet stores, a sears liquidiation store among others.

Prior to that you had quality outlets like Laura Secord, Black and Decker, Carlton Cards. You also had staples like TD Bank, Hy & Zels and Cineplex Odeon.

By the time the liquidation stores came in the mall was slated for demolition so it was to be expected.

The real shame was Morningside Mall.

I grew up in West Hill and for years Morningside Mall was our community hub. It was fair sized and had all the stores you needed from Woolco to Dominion.

Unfortunately around 1999/2000, they brought in alot of ethnic and discount stores and the mall tanked. It was Scarboroughs version of Woodbine Mall.

But YET, one big difference here is, The Bay LEFT Warden woods mall before it could become a "Power Centre" and the Bay is still in Woodbine mall.
That being said, if the BAY can maintain desire to be there, I don't doubt for a second that MEC or SIMONS wouldn't mind snatching up that space, should Bay go bankrupt and vanish. (perhaps as a clearance centre, but still...)

 

[ShonTron]

I shopped at Warden Power Centre for years.

It was great until they brought in the liquidation stores. At the end you had middle eastern carpet stores, a sears liquidiation store among others.

Prior to that you had quality outlets like Laura Secord, Black and Decker, Carlton Cards. You also had staples like TD Bank, Hy & Zels and Cineplex Odeon.

By the time the liquidation stores came in the mall was slated for demolition so it was to be expected.

The real shame was Morningside Mall.

I grew up in West Hill and for years Morningside Mall was our community hub. It was fair sized and had all the stores you needed from Woolco to Dominion.

Unfortunately around 1999/2000, they brought in alot of ethnic and discount stores and the mall tanked. It was Scarboroughs version of Woodbine Mall.

When Wal-Mart moved out of the Woolco store (to a purpose-built store at Morningside/401) that was it.