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We may be overthinking this. It appears that it is being argued as a contract dispute between the two parties and, in accordance with the terms of the agreement, the dispute has been directed to the Quebec Superior Court. Depending on the ruling, it is binding on the parties (subject to appeal). Geography doesn't matter and no laws are being argued.
The interesting thing is that the contract wasn't entered in affidavits during the Federal court case in Ontario. There is the Train Service Agreement that is still unresolved and renewed between VIA and CN. CN seems to rely on the 'you said you'd tell us if you were operating the Ventures in the Corridor more widely' and disputing the agreed-to axle count, yet that argument will come up against VIA's evidence that CN's own daily logs show Ventures being operated west to Toronto for months before CN brought in the Crossing Supplement, without CN taking any action at that time. The fact that there was the introduction of scheduled Venture service to SW Ontario from Toronto is what seems to have caused panic at CN.

I'm also wondering if the case has made it to the Canadian Transportation Agency for dispute resolution. Under the Transport Canada Ministerial Order, CN had to submit crossing log data (entering that during the Ontario court case as confidential - reason?) and TC has had that since January of this year with no change in Venture operation. A check of the public CTA cases shows nothing of this nature between CN & VIA.

Wednesday can't come soon enough!
 
The interesting thing is that the contract wasn't entered in affidavits during the Federal court case in Ontario. There is the Train Service Agreement that is still unresolved and renewed between VIA and CN. CN seems to rely on the 'you said you'd tell us if you were operating the Ventures in the Corridor more widely' and disputing the agreed-to axle count, yet that argument will come up against VIA's evidence that CN's own daily logs show Ventures being operated west to Toronto for months before CN brought in the Crossing Supplement, without CN taking any action at that time. The fact that there was the introduction of scheduled Venture service to SW Ontario from Toronto is what seems to have caused panic at CN.

I'm also wondering if the case has made it to the Canadian Transportation Agency for dispute resolution. Under the Transport Canada Ministerial Order, CN had to submit crossing log data (entering that during the Ontario court case as confidential - reason?) and TC has had that since January of this year with no change in Venture operation. A check of the public CTA cases shows nothing of this nature between CN & VIA.

Wednesday can't come soon enough!
I don't know, but it may be that the initial actions were seeking interlocutory injunctions, rather than disputing the terms of whatever agreement.

I am baffled that this whole mess wasn't in the hands of the regulator in the first place.
 
I am baffled that this whole mess wasn't in the hands of the regulator in the first place.

I am disappointed, but not baffled. Ottawa treats VIA like the ugly sisters treated Cinderella.

Bureaucrats running for cover, and helping make room in the bushes for the Minister..... that I get very well.

- Paul
 
I don't know, but it may be that the initial actions were seeking interlocutory injunctions, rather than disputing the terms of whatever agreement.

I am baffled that this whole mess wasn't in the hands of the regulator in the first place.
I think VIA thought that an interlocutory injunction would solve their mounting problems faster. Their March 4 appearance in Quebec Superior Court led to the interlocutory injunction being not granted on April 23 as the Court chose not to intervene - and the course proceeded...to tomorrow.

VIA has come before this Court as fast as reasonably practicable to seek urgent relief against a serious safety risk and growing harm to VIA’s operations. If VIA’s request for an interlocutory injunction cannot be heard on a sufficiently expedited basis, VIA must request a safeguard order to alleviate the safety risk and harm until the interlocutory injunction can be heard.
 
I know not everyone working at CN needs to be a trainspotter and to lurk on transit boards but I find it really odd that CN are claiming that they were THAT blindsided by Ventures operating in SWO (or even south of Ottawa)

It’s not like they are really similar to HEP/LRC/Rens with that garish colour scheme.
 
I know not everyone working at CN needs to be a trainspotter and to lurk on transit boards but I find it really odd that CN are claiming that they were THAT blindsided by Ventures operating in SWO (or even south of Ottawa)

It’s not like they are really similar to HEP/LRC/Rens with that garish colour scheme.
Even more so when the responsible person at CN who claims ignorance came straight from the department at VIA which is in charge of assigning fleet to routes by crafting cycling plans:

Screenshot LinkedIn profile Hoang Tran

IMG_9193.jpeg


 
It’s ironic that every Venture trainset was delivered by CN from Chicago mostly all t he way to Montreal. The delivery movements were a single engine plus the Ventures, ie less than 32 axles… and the speed restriction on those movements was 60 mph, I’m told. That’s a lot of CN being asleep at the switch!
We are up to what - the 30th delivery?

- Paul
 
The interesting thing is that the contract wasn't entered in affidavits during the Federal court case in Ontario. There is the Train Service Agreement that is still unresolved and renewed between VIA and CN. CN seems to rely on the 'you said you'd tell us if you were operating the Ventures in the Corridor more widely' and disputing the agreed-to axle count, yet that argument will come up against VIA's evidence that CN's own daily logs show Ventures being operated west to Toronto for months before CN brought in the Crossing Supplement, without CN taking any action at that time. The fact that there was the introduction of scheduled Venture service to SW Ontario from Toronto is what seems to have caused panic at CN.

I'm also wondering if the case has made it to the Canadian Transportation Agency for dispute resolution. Under the Transport Canada Ministerial Order, CN had to submit crossing log data (entering that during the Ontario court case as confidential - reason?) and TC has had that since January of this year with no change in Venture operation. A check of the public CTA cases shows nothing of this nature between CN & VIA.

Wednesday can't come soon enough!

Are we expecting any new documents to be posted on Wednesday or as a result of Wednesday?
 
Are we expecting any new documents to be posted on Wednesday or as a result of Wednesday?
I don't know about new documents. Other than documents I posted already, some of which were new since the Ontario case, I'm just waiting to see Ventures going track speed on Thursday!:cool:

Yes, we're up to 30 of 32 trainsets delivered. All delivery details are here:
 
It’s ironic that every Venture trainset was delivered by CN from Chicago mostly all t he way to Montreal. The delivery movements were a single engine plus the Ventures, ie less than 32 axles… and the speed restriction on those movements was 60 mph, I’m told. That’s a lot of CN being asleep at the switch!
We are up to what - the 30th delivery?

- Paul
Up to 32 axles now if they have an Exo on the back ;)
 
Just planting a date-stamp flag on the VIA injunction against CN's crossing speed reduction on Ventures here, held today in Quebec Superior Court in Montreal which will ideally result in a published ruling in the next week or two...

Based on much of the content of the April hearings before the Quebec Superior Court in which VIA requested an interlocutory injunction, the judge's ruling thereon, and a subsequent ruling in the Quebec Court of Appeal in June that took only 40 minutes to hear, it looks like the issue will ultimately, and grindingly slowly land in the lap of Transport Canada. This outcome has been predicted by many voices though VIA has chosen to pursue the issue through the Courts since November, 2024 one month after CN issued the restrictions on VIA's Ventures.

Both judges' rulings upheld the inherent unsuitability of the Court to deal with not only specialized technical evidence and affidavits presented by both sides and their experts, but also the thousands, possibly millions of pages of machine-readable data emanating from the Ministerial Order demanding crossing protection technology data from CN by the Minister of Transport ministerial order.

The Superior Court was reluctant to render a decision after only two days of technically-based hearings, especially a time-sensitive one, that could later be contradicted by the transport regulator upon expert analysis of voluminous data still ping-ponging between CN and Transport Canada. Also noted was the fact that,
"the Minister, although advised by VIA of its concerns regarding the urgency of lifting the application of the directive due to the risks that it could create by cognitive overload for Venture locomotive engineers, did not deem it appropriate at this stage to issue an emergency ministerial injunction, fully within her powers. The legislative regime put in place by the legislator in matters of railway safety offers VIA a process which is fully capable of adequately responding to the protection of the interests which it seeks to protect by its request for an interlocutory injunction."

and...

"One of these considerations that seemed relevant to in this case is the fact that an administrative process, not only adequate but better placed than the Court to resolve the debate, is currently underway."

Come on, TC, you've had the CN data since December! Although the Court recognized this is truly an issue of rail safety, the substantial harms suffered by VIA to its ridership and reputation seem to take a back seat as TC continues dealing with CN and digesting its submitted data.
 
Just planting a date-stamp flag on the VIA injunction against CN's crossing speed reduction on Ventures here, held today in Quebec Superior Court in Montreal which will ideally result in a published ruling in the next week or two...

Based on much of the content of the April hearings before the Quebec Superior Court in which VIA requested an interlocutory injunction, the judge's ruling thereon, and a subsequent ruling in the Quebec Court of Appeal in June that took only 40 minutes to hear, it looks like the issue will ultimately, and grindingly slowly land in the lap of Transport Canada. This outcome has been predicted by many voices though VIA has chosen to pursue the issue through the Courts since November, 2024 one month after CN issued the restrictions on VIA's Ventures.

Both judges' rulings upheld the inherent unsuitability of the Court to deal with not only specialized technical evidence and affidavits presented by both sides and their experts, but also the thousands, possibly millions of pages of machine-readable data emanating from the Ministerial Order demanding crossing protection technology data from CN by the Minister of Transport ministerial order.

The Superior Court was reluctant to render a decision after only two days of technically-based hearings, especially a time-sensitive one, that could later be contradicted by the transport regulator upon expert analysis of voluminous data still ping-ponging between CN and Transport Canada. Also noted was the fact that,
"the Minister, although advised by VIA of its concerns regarding the urgency of lifting the application of the directive due to the risks that it could create by cognitive overload for Venture locomotive engineers, did not deem it appropriate at this stage to issue an emergency ministerial injunction, fully within her powers. The legislative regime put in place by the legislator in matters of railway safety offers VIA a process which is fully capable of adequately responding to the protection of the interests which it seeks to protect by its request for an interlocutory injunction."

and...

"One of these considerations that seemed relevant to in this case is the fact that an administrative process, not only adequate but better placed than the Court to resolve the debate, is currently underway."

Come on, TC, you've had the CN data since December! Although the Court recognized this is truly an issue of rail safety, the substantial harms suffered by VIA to its ridership and reputation seem to take a back seat as TC continues dealing with CN and digesting its submitted data.
thats bureaucracy 101 for you right there. 😒
 
Just planting a date-stamp flag on the VIA injunction against CN's crossing speed reduction on Ventures here, held today in Quebec Superior Court in Montreal which will ideally result in a published ruling in the next week or two...

Based on much of the content of the April hearings before the Quebec Superior Court in which VIA requested an interlocutory injunction, the judge's ruling thereon, and a subsequent ruling in the Quebec Court of Appeal in June that took only 40 minutes to hear, it looks like the issue will ultimately, and grindingly slowly land in the lap of Transport Canada. This outcome has been predicted by many voices though VIA has chosen to pursue the issue through the Courts since November, 2024 one month after CN issued the restrictions on VIA's Ventures.

Both judges' rulings upheld the inherent unsuitability of the Court to deal with not only specialized technical evidence and affidavits presented by both sides and their experts, but also the thousands, possibly millions of pages of machine-readable data emanating from the Ministerial Order demanding crossing protection technology data from CN by the Minister of Transport ministerial order.

The Superior Court was reluctant to render a decision after only two days of technically-based hearings, especially a time-sensitive one, that could later be contradicted by the transport regulator upon expert analysis of voluminous data still ping-ponging between CN and Transport Canada. Also noted was the fact that,
"the Minister, although advised by VIA of its concerns regarding the urgency of lifting the application of the directive due to the risks that it could create by cognitive overload for Venture locomotive engineers, did not deem it appropriate at this stage to issue an emergency ministerial injunction, fully within her powers. The legislative regime put in place by the legislator in matters of railway safety offers VIA a process which is fully capable of adequately responding to the protection of the interests which it seeks to protect by its request for an interlocutory injunction."

and...

"One of these considerations that seemed relevant to in this case is the fact that an administrative process, not only adequate but better placed than the Court to resolve the debate, is currently underway."

Come on, TC, you've had the CN data since December! Although the Court recognized this is truly an issue of rail safety, the substantial harms suffered by VIA to its ridership and reputation seem to take a back seat as TC continues dealing with CN and digesting its submitted data.
I think it should be taken into consideration that if TC rules in VIA's favour and there is an incident at a crossing CN will hold it against them. It would also be a PR nightmare.

Remember it was an isolated incident, but that doesn't mean it can never happen again.

At the same time if it's a manageable form of risk then they should intervene.
 
Posted yesterday. They're taking questions at the AGM.

Two main topics they most like will/should cover are:
1) The situation with CN
2) The status of the LDF replacement.

They are really the top 2 things affecting Via right now.
 

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