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The Canadian National Exhibition (CNE) averages to about 89,000 visitors per day. So Exhibition Place can handle the 45,736 seating capacity at "Toronto Stadium". It's having them coming and going at once that is the problem.
Yes - it's the coming and going. The grounds are very busy at the Ex (with ice weekends being much higher than averate), but I've never seen anything close to the crowding on the GO platform departing Exhibition that I do, even when there's only 15,000 at the stadium.

Though it can get very problematic when there's a sold-out game on a Saturday of of the Exhibition. GO was survivable but very bad. But the crowd trying to get out of the carney section between the Food building and leading towards the Enercare Centre was scary on one occasion. I feel they were someone shouting fire away from a mass casualty event! Though they've dealt with things different more recently.
 
TTC’s readiness for FIFA World Cup 2026TM successfully tested this past weekend

May 11, 2026

This past weekend, the TTC successfully tested several key elements of its plans to deliver safe and reliable service when FIFA World Cup 2026 TM kicks off in Toronto next month.

With 30 days until kickoff, preparation has moved from planning to practice. Service delivery, emergency response time, crowd management, and coordination both internally and with external partner agencies were all put through their paces during the Toronto FC match at BMO Field. With 45,000 people attending that match and nearly 50,000 at Rogers Centre for the Toronto Blue Jays game on Saturday afternoon, it was the right time to put real-world scenario management to the test.

The TTC added service for the TFC match on critical routes (Lines 1 and 2, 509 Harbourfront and 511 Bathurst) that will serve Toronto Stadium and FIFA Fan Fest areas. A total of 19 subway trains were added and strategically staged for match end, in addition to 13 streetcars on the 509 and 511 routes, which served Exhibition Loop every five minutes on Saturday. Also, the 504 King corridor will have frequent five-minute service from now through the tournament.

The exercise reinforced the value of work already underway, including transit priority measures across much of the network, while also highlighting a small number of intersections where additional coordination with City partners and Toronto Police Service will be required.

The test also confirmed the importance of in-person support during peak demand. Based on observations and customer feedback, we’ll be modifying plans to expand TTC Ambassador presence at additional locations, including TMU and Queens Quay stations.

While the exercise tested most TTC plans, there will be some critical differences on Toronto match days once the event starts. This includes road closures in and around Exhibition Place and Liberty Village on match days and the use of a transit hub at Fleet St. and Strachan Ave., neither of which was in place this past weekend.

The TTC thanks its partners at Metrolinx, Toronto Police Service, Toronto Emergency Services, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment and Exhibition Place for their support this weekend.

The TTC will continue to refine its plans as needed before and during the World Cup to ensure the event is a success.
 
TTC’s readiness for FIFA World Cup 2026TM successfully tested this past weekend

May 11, 2026

This past weekend, the TTC successfully tested several key elements of its plans to deliver safe and reliable service when FIFA World Cup 2026 TM kicks off in Toronto next month.

With 30 days until kickoff, preparation has moved from planning to practice. Service delivery, emergency response time, crowd management, and coordination both internally and with external partner agencies were all put through their paces during the Toronto FC match at BMO Field. With 45,000 people attending that match and nearly 50,000 at Rogers Centre for the Toronto Blue Jays game on Saturday afternoon, it was the right time to put real-world scenario management to the test.

The TTC added service for the TFC match on critical routes (Lines 1 and 2, 509 Harbourfront and 511 Bathurst) that will serve Toronto Stadium and FIFA Fan Fest areas. A total of 19 subway trains were added and strategically staged for match end, in addition to 13 streetcars on the 509 and 511 routes, which served Exhibition Loop every five minutes on Saturday. Also, the 504 King corridor will have frequent five-minute service from now through the tournament.

The exercise reinforced the value of work already underway, including transit priority measures across much of the network, while also highlighting a small number of intersections where additional coordination with City partners and Toronto Police Service will be required.

The test also confirmed the importance of in-person support during peak demand. Based on observations and customer feedback, we’ll be modifying plans to expand TTC Ambassador presence at additional locations, including TMU and Queens Quay stations.

While the exercise tested most TTC plans, there will be some critical differences on Toronto match days once the event starts. This includes road closures in and around Exhibition Place and Liberty Village on match days and the use of a transit hub at Fleet St. and Strachan Ave., neither of which was in place this past weekend.

The TTC thanks its partners at Metrolinx, Toronto Police Service, Toronto Emergency Services, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment and Exhibition Place for their support this weekend.

The TTC will continue to refine its plans as needed before and during the World Cup to ensure the event is a success.
This means nothing. Did they simulate delays? a switch out of service? a broken down streetcar? I bet they tested it under ideal conditions and called it a day.
 
Was all this why there were a zillion 504 busses idling around downtown on Sunday? The were so many 504's parked and waiting to be dispatched they actually couldn't fit on York Street and created their own backlog trying to make the round the block trip up York across Adelaide and back down Bay to King. They were quite literally causing the problem they want to avoid.
 
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Was all this why there were a zillion 504 busses idling around downtown on Sunday? The were so many 504's parked and waiting to be dispatched they actually couldn't fit on York Street and created their own backlog trying to make the round the block trip up York across Adelaide and back down Bay to King. They were quite literally causing the problem they want to avoid.
Gotta love when buses are running on a streetcar schedule.

That's what happens when you have buses that are able to complete trips much faster compared to a streetcar, because streetcars move like molasses. This leads to buses reaching the end of the route with massive recovery time, thus laying over for extended periods of time.

Add to the fact that some routes already have generous recovery times and well, you get a buffet of buses sitting around waiting until their departure time.

Clearly the TTC is deluded enough to think that this is a great allocation of resources and that they believe they're apparently using their assets in a very efficient way.
 
Second point:

There are intersections every ~100 m downtown, I don't see east-west surface streetcars being conducive to a 30 minute city for anything south of Bloor, even if the streetcars become significantly faster over the next 2-3 years.

Somewhat related example: BMO Field is a mere 3.5 km away from Union by walking. And yet it takes 30 minutes by 509 streetcar (+ short walk). Basically anyone south of College-ish, west of Dufferin that works in the Financial District is in violation of Marchetti's constant right now. (Yes Lakeshore West exists, but are 15 minute frequencies good enough? What about door to door walking that includes the longer walk to/from the GO train)

Now I know Marchetti isn't a hard and fast rule, but it's a good aspiration to have. Toronto being 1 hour away from Toronto is not a good thing.

Plenty of streetcar served areas west of Dufferin will still have 30+ min trips even after the speed initiatives.

Humber Bay Shores et al seems forgotten about at this point (GO station(s) when?) In an ideal Toronto, all the streetcars would stay, but more radial subway lines would cut east-west linking downtown to downtown-adjacent areas and beyond.

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https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...ucation-Labour-Commuting-Language-of-Work.pdf

I agree w/the vision of getting as many commutes as possible below 30 minutes.

I think what follows is not a need to discusses counter-factuals on how easy this would have been had different choices been made decades ago, but rather what choices can be made to further it now.

Infill GO Stations at Park Lawn, Liberty Village and Bloor on GO Lines that run service every 15M or better 6am-1am 7 days a week will go some distance in that direction.

The King Car would benefit with even one major pedestrian plaza in the area of John Street, some stop reductions and assertive TSP can absolutely hit good numbers.

So can the 509 with some(extended to Dufferin Loop, at least) with some (mostly) minor tweaks. (1 stop removal, 1 traffic light removal, assertive TSP, proper door closing (no having passengers reopen doors once closed) would do quite well. There are ways for it to better, but they are more expensive. The line really only needs to avoid one intersection today, which is Bathurst/Fleet/Lakeshore but tunnelling , briefly, wouldonly make sense if the site on the s/e corner of the intersection were purchased, so as to allow gentler curves and higher track speeds; but at ~400-650M by my estimates, I think its tought to justify and that cost doesn't include addressing the 511 which crosses that intersection as well.

If the tunnel could be kept shallow'ish....there is just enough room , I think (napkin math) to send Bathurst under the intersection as well, but turning left and rising in time to meet the existing tracks on the bridge.

There is sufficient room in the ROW to separate the tracks on Bathurst into their own ROW up to Queen. (the bridge may be an issue)

A gap between E-W rapid transit would remain from 1km north of Queen to 1km south of Bloor from Bathurst westward. There the question is really how much we can get out of the existing streetcar system.

The answer lies on College. IF you are willing to remove on-street parking, there is sufficient room in the ROW to separate the tracks on College from Manning in the west to Bay in the east.

Once you do that, with stop rationalizations , we should be able to fight endless with Transportation about removing 2-3 no longer needed traffic lights.
 
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Was all this why there were a zillion 504 busses idling around downtown on Sunday? The were so many 504's parked and waiting to be dispatched they actually couldn't fit on York Street and created their own backlog trying to make the round the block trip up York across Adelaide and back down Bay to King. They were quite literally causing the problem they want to avoid.
That's why they had Line 2 down from Kipling Station to Jane Station, replaced by buses. During the games, hopefully the rapid transit lines will be up and running, and the buses used this past weekend would be available for problems that may or may not arise.
 
Infill GO Stations at Park Lawn, Liberty Village and Bloor on GO Lines that run service every 15M or better 6am-1am 7 days a week will go some distance in that direction.

This is true. Hoping Park Lawn and King-Liberty aren't mothballed for too long.

Regarding the E-W corridors. You don't think the status quo will remain (besides Waterfront West LRT) until congestion becomes untenable and proper Queen/Front/College/Lakeshore-ish subway(s) are built?
 
This is true. Hoping Park Lawn and King-Liberty aren't mothballed for too long.

Regarding the E-W corridors. You don't think the status quo will remain (besides Waterfront West LRT) until congestion becomes untenable and proper Queen/Front/College/Lakeshore-ish subway(s) are built?

The improvements on King could benefit existing businesses, creating patios in restaurant row, and space for theatre goers; I think it can happen sooner than later..... can and will are different things mind you.

College is more of a challenge, portions were just rebuilt and I can't imagine enthusiasm to go back and re-do them again. That said, Counclillor Saxe should she survive the election has shown a w willingness to remove parking and that's the politically hard bit.

The rest is money. Which doesn't have to be huge. You could separate College with concrete curbs without digging up the whole road (or the tracks) . The same way that's being done on Peter now. You just need the parking gone to make the land widths work.
 
College is more of a challenge, portions were just rebuilt and I can't imagine enthusiasm to go back and re-do them again. That said, Counclillor Saxe should she survive the election has shown a w willingness to remove parking and that's the politically hard bit.

The rest is money. Which doesn't have to be huge. You could separate College with concrete curbs without digging up the whole road (or the tracks) . The same way that's being done on Peter now. You just need the parking gone to make the land widths work.

Not really directed at what you're saying, wanted to clarify that the west, towards Etobicoke is what I'm worried about. To me it's the most egregious "1 hour away from Toronto" because driving distance is short. I have a friend who is a 30-40 minute walk to Long Branch + 21 minute train to Union, or a 90+ minute trip on the TTC with bus-subway-subway, streetcar-streetcar all being options.

The areas immediately east of Downtown, all the way to RC Harris/Victoria Park avenue are saved by the Ontario Line, if you walk then take the streetcar to Gerrard or Leslieville station (Queen), you'll come close to 30 minutes. 40 minutes is not egregious for someone starting from the Neville Park Loop.

I accept that it will be infeasible to make most commuters in the outer reaches of North York or Scarborough use transit. I can only hope that transit deserts closer to Downtown will be addressed in my lifetime.
 
Not really directed at what you're saying, wanted to clarify that the west, towards Etobicoke is what I'm worried about. To me it's the most egregious "1 hour away from Toronto" because driving distance is short. I have a friend who is a 30-40 minute walk to Long Branch + 21 minute train to Union, or a 90+ minute trip on the TTC with bus-subway-subway, streetcar-streetcar all being options.

A bus to Long Branch is the correct option (or streetcar if you live in proximity to Lakeshore)

Upgrading the streetcar is feasible in the western and eastern extremes (separation) but there are some pin points.

Better transit along Queensway (likely still bus) is also quite feasible

Upgrading transit on N-routes, particularly Kipling and Islington is very achievable as well.

Further, GO Milton, which has a station at Kipling will be upgraded to 2-way, all-day service in the medium term.

Finally, a one-stop extension of Line 2 to East Mall would help many and I think is likely. Getting the subway west of that is more dubious.

****

The real limiting factor for transit in South Etobicoke to downtown is the absence of any E-W roads that cross the Humber or High Park between Queensway and Bloor (which means no transit corridors either); that will not and should not change.

The N-S limiting factor is really service Royal York and Prince Edward/Parklawn both of which will only get a bit more frequent, not much faster in the future.
 
A bus to Long Branch is the correct option (or streetcar if you live in proximity to Lakeshore)

If you look at the transit desert south of Lakeshore, west of Kipling, along the lake, there are no buses. And I don't even think that area warrants a bus. It's a 10 min walk to Lakeshore, then another 10 min back track to Long Branch. Plus walking time from Loop to GO platform.

Long Branch's lot is usually full. Can you really blame them for driving to work?

Even with 15 minute headways from Long Branch, I don't see how one way trips can be shorter than 1 hour.

And this area isn't unique. Much of Etobicoke is like this, lacking adequate transit to downtown relative to its proximity, much less the other boroughs.

Living a 10 minute drive from Oakville GO is often paradoxically "closer" or "faster" to downtown than living a 10 minute drive from Long Branch GO since there's little to no parking at Long Branch (9 spots? most of them reserved?).
 
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If you look at the transit desert south of Lakeshore, west of Kipling, along the lake, there are no buses. And I don't even think that area warrants a bus. It's a 10 min walk to Lakeshore, then another 10 min back track to Long Branch.

Even with 15 minute headways from Long Branch, I don't see how one way trips can be shorter than 1 hour.

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Median wait time for a 15m headway is 7'30, which gives you 31m, 30s from the station to downtown; if you lived at the foot of Fortieth St. at the Lake, its a ~1km or 15m walk to the station, which gives you an all-in of 46m, 30s


Not ideal FWIW at random, I asked google how fast to get downtown from this location right now:

1778594169753.png


Transit can be competitive
 
View attachment 736048

Median wait time for a 15m headway is 7'30, which gives you 31m, 30s from the station to downtown; if you lived at the foot of Fortieth St. at the Lake, its a ~1km or 15m walk to the station, which gives you an all-in of 46m, 30s


Not ideal FWIW at random, I asked google how fast to get downtown from this location right now:

View attachment 736049

Transit can be competitive

I got 53-56 minutes according to Google Maps for transit including LW for Etobicoke (30 minute walk, starting from closer to Colonel Samuel Smith park). The thing is, you have to give yourself a buffer to catch the streetcar (very often late streetcar) to catch the GO train. So 53-56 minutes is not realistic.
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Oakville GO, the train is usually on time, plenty of parking. You don't need to give yourself much of a buffer. 42 minutes for non-express + 10 minutes driving + 5 minutes buffer was my go-to some years ago. 57 minutes.

There are also express trains from Oakville, not from Long Branch. That makes it 49 min instead of 57 for non-express or "56 minutes" for the Etobicoke scenario.

1778602652864.png
 
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