[Steve X]

Likely for compatibility with existing equipment.

The TR's were brought online in 2011 and since then tech has changed. It stands to reason they would want newer and more compatible trains on the line.

I do see your point though. Line 2 always got hand me downs.

The electronics and software might be different but similar mechanical systems would ease maintenance and training to maintain them.

With the T1 and TR orders, the new cars went to Line 1 and the older cars were shifted to Line 2. Why will the new cars go to Line 2 this time?

The TRs were designed for line 1 to improve capacity however their coupled designed makes it very difficult to maintain at Greenwood yard so these new trains are designed to be easily decoupled. The TRs can’t to handed down to line 2 unless they build a new yard. They wanted to do that but they got no money. The older T1s stared in line 1 but are spread onto all 3 lines for accessibility. They aren’t bad trains at all.

 

[smallspy]

Likely for compatibility with existing equipment.

The TR's were brought online in 2011 and since then tech has changed. It stands to reason they would want newer and more compatible trains on the line.

It is not clear as yet just what is going to change on these new trains. There may be a lot of carry-over from the TRs for all we know.

I do see your point though. Line 2 always got hand me downs.

This is absolutely not true. The H5s were split between the two lines, and the H6s were all delivered to the B-D. While the YUS got the base order for the T1s, the option order was allocated to B-D.

Dan

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

It is not clear as yet just what is going to change on these new trains. There may be a lot of carry-over from the TRs for all we know.


This is absolutely not true. The H5s were split between the two lines, and the H6s were all delivered to the B-D. While the YUS got the base order for the T1s, the option order was allocated to B-D.

Dan

Likely the electronics on the new trains should be smaller, tighter, and more compact. The last TR train was completed in 2015.

For comparison, cell phones in 2015 offered storage options ranging from 16 GB to 128 GB. Today's cell phones offer 1TB or more of storage. By the time the new trains arrive, will we actually make use of their new options, however? Or will the TTC stick to punched cards because of cost?

 

[81-717]

With the T1 and TR orders, the new cars went to Line 1 and the older cars were shifted to Line 2. Why will the new cars go to Line 2 this time?

Because why not?

I do see your point though. Line 2 always got hand me downs.

Just because that was usually the case before doesn't make it right (or wrong), and certainly doesn't mean it should always be the case going forward.

This is absolutely not true. The H5s were split between the two lines, and the H6s were all delivered to the B-D. While the YUS got the base order for the T1s, the option order was allocated to B-D.

It's mostly because of the T1 & TR orders that line 2 is known for "handmedowns". And again, when the T1s were being delivered I really fail to see the logic of the newest T1s going on line 1 and displacing the older T1s to line 2, rather than leaving the older T1s on line 1 where they already were to begin with, and putting the newest T1s directly on line 2.

It is not clear as yet just what is going to change on these new trains. There may be a lot of carry-over from the TRs for all we know.

Which would hopefully accelerate the design/build stage. While it's not yet known whether the new trains will have the same propulsion as the TRs (which themselves have similar propulsion to the C20, which came out in the late 1990s), other aspects of the TRs are already seen as outdated (such as the TR maps vs. LCD screens on newer cars like the R211). Even the original TR-inspired proposed exterior of the new trains is seen as outdated by many, who find the new rendering more modern.

The last TR train was completed in 2015.

Wasn't the last one delivered as late as 2017?

 

[Amare]

With the T1 and TR orders, the new cars went to Line 1 and the older cars were shifted to Line 2. Why will the new cars go to Line 2 this time?

Simply put, Wilson Yard (where the main heavy maintenance is done to the TR) has been retrofitted to handle the TRs maintenance requirements.

Greenwood Yard (where heavy maintenance is done for T1s) has not been retrofitted to handle TR maintenance requirement. If the TTC's new train order went to Wilson, the TRs would have to be moved to Greenwood and that yard isnt built/retrofitted to handle that.

So in order to avoid all that train movement/incompatibility, the new trains are being built in such a way where sets can be broken apart, which would then allow Greenwood to perform maintenance to the trains.

That's just a general synopsis of the reasoning.

 

[cplchanb]

Simply put, Wilson Yard (where the main heavy maintenance is done to the TR) has been retrofitted to handle the TRs maintenance requirements.

Greenwood Yard (where heavy maintenance is done for T1s) has not been retrofitted to handle TR maintenance requirement. If the TTC's new train order went to Wilson, the TRs would have to be moved to Greenwood and that yard isnt built/retrofitted to handle that.

So in order to avoid all that train movement/incompatibility, the new trains are being built in such a way where sets can be broken apart, which would then allow Greenwood to perform maintenance to the trains.

That's just a general synopsis of the reasoning.

honestly why wont they take the opportunity to upgrade greenwood? they now have to design a frankenstein train that loses passenger space due to occasionally used controls. not to mention the additional time it takes to decouple and shuffle around sets for maintenance.
lose lose id say on the unwillingness to invest on fundamental shop upgrades.

 

[Richard White]

honestly why wont they take the opportunity to upgrade greenwood? they now have to design a frankenstein train that loses passenger space due to occasionally used controls. not to mention the additional time it takes to decouple and shuffle around sets for maintenance.
lose lose id say on the unwillingness to invest on fundamental shop upgrades.

If I recall the original plan was to building Obico Yard in the west end but that got shelved.

Here's the thing. If you upgrade Greenwood Yard it will take a while. Where are you going to put all those trains when the yard is out of service for modernization?

 

[APTA-2048]

honestly why wont they take the opportunity to upgrade greenwood? they now have to design a frankenstein train that loses passenger space due to occasionally used controls. not to mention the additional time it takes to decouple and shuffle around sets for maintenance.
lose lose id say on the unwillingness to invest on fundamental shop upgrades.

The joint design proposed by Hübner doesn’t appear to eat much into passenger space, as best as I can see from the model.

 

[81-717]

honestly why wont they take the opportunity to upgrade greenwood? they now have to design a frankenstein train that loses passenger space due to occasionally used controls. not to mention the additional time it takes to decouple and shuffle around sets for maintenance.
lose lose id say on the unwillingness to invest on fundamental shop upgrades.

If I recall the original plan was to building Obico Yard in the west end but that got shelved.

Here's the thing. If you upgrade Greenwood Yard it will take a while. Where are you going to put all those trains when the yard is out of service for modernization?

Aside from the fact that any rebuilding of GW would pose the same complications for storage of the existing fleet (and thus shouldn't affect delivery of the new fleet, because it would be stored wherever the existing fleet is, displacing the existing fleet), I'd rather the cars get here ASAP even if it means having a half-assed configuration. Hell, I'd rather they delay the openings of the SSE & YNSE by a few years (assuming they're somehow miraculously built before all 70–80 new trains are here anyway) than have to reallocate any of the 55 replacement trains towards service expansion, thus delaying the T1 replacement even more than it already is (thanks a lot rick leary).

it's fascinating to see where your priorities lie.

 

[Northern Light]

Ok.....slightly divergent anecdotal tangent......that arguably fits in this thread, because it took place on TTC. LOL

So, I'm on the subway today..........I'll leave the time/place details out so as not incriminate the criminals, LOL

I enter the train, and glance for seats and see a 2-seat bench open and go place myself there.

Behind me, two young women, probably late teens, are chatting.......quite vocally.

I did not participate in anyway, I just couldn't help but overhear the whole thing.....and found it......ummm, amusing.

So woman number 1 is going on to woman number 2, about how she's only been the subject of criminal charges three times.

The middle one didn't really count.....

But there was the time she was charged with 'Grand Theft Auto'.... i think @lenaitch would really appreciate that. (for the rest of you, there is no such charge in Canada, yes stealing a car is illegal, but the charge is more banal sounding.....'Theft of a Motor Vehicle'....

At any rate, she goes on to relate to her companion that she drove so and so (another woman) from wherever to the opposite end of the GTA, then back again, and wasn't she a swell friend......but apparently she drove this person to the point of running out of gas.

The person who she did this favour for didn't seem to care and went into her home and then refused to answer the door, leaving this poor woman stranded.

Apparently she persisted long enough in knocking (or something else) that the neighbours phoned the police. The police responded, the young woman relayed her story, and the police ran her plate, and it came up stolen and she was arrested.
*@#$ what a terrible such and such the so and so who wouldn't answer the door was.....look at what she caused.

Ummm

Ummmm

LOL

The things you hear while riding the subway.

I just felt the need to share.

Oh, and polite reminder.....when talking on the subway......you never know who is listening, and has really good recall....... LOL

 

[Jonny5]

The things you hear while riding the subway.

I just felt the need to share.

Oh, and polite reminder.....when talking on the subway......you never know who is listening, and has really good recall....... LOL

I don't have reason to use the subway much these days, but on a recent streetcar trip through the financial district I did overhear a well-dressed but quite young-looking man talking on the phone about what a POS one of his wealth management clients was, and it was not a very common name. I was able to look up the name on LinkedIn and find a match in Toronto that was almost certainly the person being discussed, and I wondered what he would think if I told him what I was hearing from the guy he probably pays a lot of fees to for his services. Also, I wonder what his firm's compliance department would say if I heard details about one of their client accounts.

Though nothing will top the time I was on a GO Train and a woman had a loud conversation on the phone with someone about the details of her recent abortion.

 

[evandyk]

I was on an eastbound train this morning, we just passed St. George and there was a garbled unintelligble announcement. Then a guy comes on the train phone and says that due to an injury at track level, there's no service from Bloor/Yonge to Union. So now obviously everybody is thinking they'll have to get off at Yonge and go back to St. George to get downtown. Then just as we pass Bay, the same guy announces that there's actually service from Bloor to King. So everybody sighs in relief and gets off at Yonge to go south. Then as soon as we start going again, he announces that there's actually no service south of College. So everybody who got on a southbound train was probably stranded.

My wife was stranded too. She was trying to go south on the university side, which closed south of Osgoode.

I was fine, I took the streetcar to Dundas Stn and walked downtown from there through the Eaton Centre. It was pretty packed considering it was before 9 and closed. Guess it was everybody who got stranded north of College...

I heard later that there was a fatality on the tracks at Union. We need platform doors ASAP.

 

[Northern Light]

I was on an eastbound train this morning, we just passed St. George and there was a garbled unintelligble announcement. Then a guy comes on the train phone and says that due to an injury at track level, there's no service from Bloor/Yonge to Union. So now obviously everybody is thinking they'll have to get off at Yonge and go back to St. George to get downtown. Then just as we pass Bay, the same guy announces that there's actually service from Bloor to King. So everybody sighs in relief and gets off at Yonge to go south. Then as soon as we start going again, he announces that there's actually no service south of College. So everybody who got on a southbound train was probably stranded.

My wife was stranded too. She was trying to go south on the university side, which closed south of Osgoode.

I was fine, I took the streetcar to Dundas Stn and walked downtown from there through the Eaton Centre. It was pretty packed considering it was before 9 and closed. Guess it was everybody who got stranded north of College...

I heard later that there was a fatality on the tracks at Union. We need platform doors ASAP.

The 'incident' occurred at Union.

The Osgoode turnback point makes sense on that side.

But on the Yonge side, there's a crossover between King and Queen, so why were they turning trains at College?

Hmmm

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

The 'incident' occurred at Union.

The Osgoode turnback point makes sense on that side.

But on the Yonge side, there's a crossover between King and Queen, so why were they turning trains at College?

Hmmm

I would guess the TTC can't turn the power off at Union without turning it off at King.

I know when Andy Byford was in charge they modified the power distribution system so power could be turned off on the bridge without turning off the power at Broadview. I'm not sure if they did any other stations.

 

[APTA-2048]

I would guess the TTC can't turn the power off at Union without turning it off at King.

I know when Andy Byford was in charge they modified the power distribution system so power could be turned off on the bridge without turning off the power at Broadview. I'm not sure if they did any other stations.

This must be why. Last time there was a power off at Union, we had to get off at College too.