[T3G]

What would be ridiculous is calling it "Toronto Metropolitan University". Almost as silly as Vaughan Megalopolis Centre.

Why is York University, the institution's full name, OK, but using TMU's full name would be ridiculous? That is its name, and therefore should be used. If you want to take up the name with someone, take it up with Ryerson. I'm certainly no fan.

Our city is full of people and institutions using names that are ridiculous. We don't use different names for Old Cummer GO due to its R-rated implications. We don't rename Main Street station because Main Street is not the city's main street. We don't call Pleasant View something else due to the fact that North York is hardly a pleasant place to look at, or Don Valley Village for not being a Village. We don't rename the stops at Mount Pleasant Road for the lack of a mountain along said road, or Mountstephen Street for the grammatical atrocity, Parkway Forest Drive for the lack of forest.

Either we use the proper name, or get a new name. Acronyms are acceptable to use in informal usage, but calling a station, officially, by its acronym, has to be the worst idea a Torontonian has had in at least the last month or so. We're pretty good at coming up with awful ideas.

The same way people have done it for hundreds of years? Look at a map ... use Google Maps.

Again, refer to this:

For decades, everyone was also okay with there being a Dundas and a Dundas West station. But we artificially engineered a crisis out of scores of helpless tourists ending up in the wrong location, anyway. If one wants to argue about needing to optimize wayfinding for helpless lemmings who are unable to use Google Maps (but somehow were able to end up in Toronto), how does using an acronym which won't be explained anywhere except for the Google Maps they're too incompetent to use help them with their wayfinding?

Not a fan of two exposures personally if it can be avoided, especially if It's not immediately obvious from the first exposure that the second one has more information. In this case the first exposure could easily be interpreted as the bus going to the downtown campus of University of Toronto.

But if you look at the exposure for more than a couple of seconds, you will see the additional information.
How is UTM better? How is anyone supposed to figure out what that means???

 

[81-717]

I don't know how they look more correct, given everything in this country is written properly - even the Toronto Sun. Surely using US spelling is iffy these days. And any workplace is going to frown on it.

If I had an employee who insisted on using the wrong spelling, I would terminate them.

The bottom line is, both spellings officially exist out there, so arguing which one is "wrong" is an impasse. Americans think we're the ones spelling words wrong and in this instance I don't disagree with them, and it has nothing to do with politics. And if you'd terminate someone for using the "wrong" spelling, you might as well also terminate them for using the British accent in Toronto instead of the Toronto accent.

 

[bearcat]

.How is UTM better? How is anyone supposed to figure out what that means???

I've personally never called it anything other than UTM lol.

Also the reason for renaming isn't because of "artificially engineered a crisis out of scores of helpless tourists ending up in the wrong location". It's because we it was decided that Dundas is no longer a name that should be used for anything public. Whether one agree with it or not, the momentum is for everything with Dundas in it in Toronto to be renamed.

If the name of the station has to be changed, might as well do it at the cost of someone other than the TTC, which really doesn't have much money to throw around. Here TMU is agreeing to pay for the name change, and while to some TMU might not be the most optimal name at least there's no cost to this change.

 

[nfitz]

Why is York University, the institution's full name, OK, but using TMU's full name would be ridiculous?

Because one is 20 charachters with the acronym widely-used, and the other is 4 characters and there is no acronym that most people have heard of. What is the acronym that York uses?

How is UTM better? How is anyone supposed to figure out what that means???

Who takes local buses in Mississauga who doesn't know what UTM stands for? What always confused me about Peel is why they call the Mississauga transit agency MiWay, and not call the Brampton agency BiWay? Heck, they could call a Halton agency HiWay!

The bottom line is, both spellings officially exist out there, so arguing which one is "wrong" is an impasse. Americans think we're the ones spelling words wrong and in this instance I don't disagree with them, and it has nothing to do with politics. And if you'd terminate someone for using the "wrong" spelling, you might as well also terminate them for using the British accent in Toronto instead of the Toronto accent.

I 100% disagree. Why not throw in words with French spellings too. This is Canada not the United States of f#*&@(W M@*#&%(s.

The dictionary is very clear which spelling should be used. And it's not the foreign one! Capiche?

 

[T3G]

I don't know how they look more correct, given everything in this country is written properly - even the Toronto Sun. Surely using US spelling is iffy these days. And any workplace is going to frown on it.

If I had an employee who insisted on using the wrong spelling, I would terminate them.

The bottom line is, both spellings officially exist out there, so arguing which one is "wrong" is an impasse. Americans think we're the ones spelling words wrong and in this instance I don't disagree with them, and it has nothing to do with politics. And if you'd terminate someone for using the "wrong" spelling, you might as well also terminate them for using the British accent in Toronto instead of the Toronto accent.

Both of you are being very silly. On the one hand, it's absurdly stubborn to incorrectly spell the official names of existing stations. Whether you prefer "centre" or "center" (I don't care, and the average member of the public does not strike me as being bright enough to even notice a difference between the two), the station names use Centre. Period. On the other hand, unless you work in some kind of academic writing capacity, I really can't imagine firing someone for utilizing American spelling would hold up to any kind of scrutiny, and would also certainly result in a wrongful termination lawsuit that the employer would have no ability to win. Last I checked, being American was not a crime.

Also the reason for renaming isn't because of "artificially engineered a crisis out of scores of helpless tourists ending up in the wrong location". It's because we it was decided that Dundas is no longer a name that should be used for anything public. Whether one agree with it or not, the momentum is for everything with Dundas in it in Toronto to be renamed.

That was the original casus belli, but even the city backed off on the renaming of Dundas Street. So why, if the name is going to continue to be in use, are we renaming the stations that bear the name?

Because one is 20 charachters with the acronym widely-used, and the other is 4 characters and there is no acronym that most people have heard of. What is the acronym that York uses?

I don't see that the length is materially relevant - using accurate names should be done no matter their length.

According to Wikipedia, they use both YorkU and YU. If the station was called either, I would also think it was very stupid.

York University - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who takes local buses in Mississauga who doesn't know what UTM stands for?

The first time I saw a MiWay bus using UTM, I had no idea what they were referring to. I was well used to the Toronto convention of U of T, and had to use Google Maps to figure out who or what UTM was.

But then, Google Maps is also a tool that can be used to distinguish between Dundas and Dundas West stations.

 

[Northern Light]

.....

That was the original casus belli, but even the city backed off on the renaming of Dundas Street. So why, if the name is going to continue to be in use, are we renaming the stations that bear the name?

I just want to highlight an educated member showing off the Latin in their lexicon. Carry on.

 

[north-of-anything]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dundas West doesn't get renamed for the same reason Dundas Street itself didn't. Some people may want a name to be removed, but if nobody is willing to fit the bill, there are more pressing matters to focus on. I support the name change, if only because I have no attachment to the old name, the new name will be equally descriptive, and it's not like the TTC map isn't changing anyways.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Because one is 20 charachters with the acronym widely-used, and the other is 4 characters and there is no acronym that most people have heard of. What is the acronym that York uses?

Who takes local buses in Mississauga who doesn't know what UTM stands for? What always confused me about Peel is why they call the Mississauga transit agency MiWay, and not call the Brampton agency BiWay? Heck, they could call a Halton agency HiWay!

I 100% disagree. Why not throw in words with French spellings too. This is Canada not the United States of f#*&@(W M@*#&%(s.

The dictionary is very clear which spelling should be used. And it's not the foreign one! Capiche?

England, and the United Kingdom as a whole, do not have an official language. While English is the most widely spoken and de facto official language, it doesn't have official status at the government level.

The Norman conquest of England in 1066 led to a French-speaking ruling elite, the Anglo-Normans, taking control of the country. This elite, composed primarily of Normans, Bretons, Flemings, and other Frenchmen, established a distinct cultural and linguistic identity, separate from the native Anglo-Saxon population. The Anglo-Norman aristocracy, with their French language and culture, played a significant role in shaping the political, social, and linguistic landscape of England for centuries. (Also why the English monarchy were fine having French remain as the language of Québec, because they had descended from the French.)

Latin was the language in which the legal opinions of English courts were recorded at least until the reign of George II. Under his reign, the Proceedings in Courts of Justice Act 1730 (effective from 1733), mandated that all records of legal proceedings in England were to be made in English rather than Latin.

Canada has English and French as official languages. So the French language elite continues in Canada, so of. We are using native language words, such as the name "Spadina", which originates from the Ojibwe language, specifically the word "ishpadinaa". This word translates to "high place," "high hill," or "ridge". The "correct" pronunciation of Spadina is typically /spəˈdiː.nə/ (Spa-deenah).

 

[nfitz]

The first time I saw a MiWay bus using UTM, I had no idea what they were referring to. I was well used to the Toronto convention of U of T, and had to use Google Maps to figure out who or what UTM was.

The first time I saw a Streetcar saying High Park or Carlton, I didn't know where they what they were either. One has to start somewhere.

I'm surprised though that one would be familiar with UTM as a university, but not be aware of the acronym. Like UCLA and MIT, I heard of the acronym before the university.

I think you focus too much on what will be a minor issue. What about the confusion from St. George, St. Patrick, and St. Andrew station - or the racism of not having a St. David station?

I still misspeak the first 3 and Osgoode plus Queens Park after about 50 years! (oddly Museum works for me, despite having an entrance in Queens Park, and for most of the time I've lived in Toronto, having the main entrance closer to St. George station than Museum station!).

I don't think anyone is going to see UTM station and think Dundas West, or St. Patrick.

 

[bearcat]

The first time I saw a Streetcar saying High Park or Carlton, I didn't know where they what they were either. One has to start somewhere.

I'm surprised though that one would be familiar with UTM as a university, but not be aware of the acronym. Like UCLA and MIT, I heard of the acronym before the university.

I think you focus too much on what will be a minor issue. What about the confusion from St. George, St. Patrick, and St. Andrew station - or the racism of not having a St. David station?

I still misspeak the first 3 and Osgoode plus Queens Park after about 50 years! (oddly Museum works for me, despite having an entrance in Queens Park, and for most of the time I've lived in Toronto, having the main entrance closer to St. George station than Museum station!).

I don't think anyone is going to see UTM station and think Dundas West, or St. Patrick.

Yes St. Andrew and St. Patrick took me years to figure out after moving to Canada as a child, especially not living downtown and only traveling there once in awhile. I get the historical reason for them, but personally not being really religious I have no idea where those two churches are, so the names were completely meaningless. It doesn't help that that the two stations are almost right after each other. Those were probably the two most confusing ones on the whole system.

 

[T3G]

What about the confusion from St. George, St. Patrick, and St. Andrew station - or the racism of not having a St. David station?

I still misspeak the first 3 and Osgoode plus Queens Park after about 50 years! (oddly Museum works for me, despite having an entrance in Queens Park, and for most of the time I've lived in Toronto, having the main entrance closer to St. George station than Museum station!).

I don't think anyone is going to see UTM station and think Dundas West, or St. Patrick.

I don't think people will confuse TMU station with Dundas West or St. Patrick. My argument is that, if they are not familiar with said acronym, they will have no idea what it refers to. Now, again, you can use Google Maps to find out, but you can also use it to differentiate between Dundas and Dundas West (not to mention engaging in step by step trip planning that precludes any possibility of one ending up at the wrong station to begin with), so any argument in favour of TMU as a name inherently validates Dundas and Dundas West, too. And so we go around in circles again, why did they need to rename the station in the first place?

Using an acronym is incredibly inconsistent with the TTC's pre-existing station naming guidelines. And for what reason? The cost savings of not having to print such large station signs must be trivial. I can't see a single compelling argument for why the name must be abbreviated. They're pointlessly complicating it for no reason, whereas utilizing the full name would ensure maximum understandability for all.

 

[SubHuman]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dundas West doesn't get renamed for the same reason Dundas Street itself didn't...

The Bloor GO/UPX and Dundas West TTC subway will soon be connected (the train station is nearly on top of the eastern end of the subway station platforms). As at Kipling and Kennedy, it might make sense for them to have the same name, and a name that isn't already one (Bloor) that belongs to another one in a different location.

Edit: (14 May 2025) - I forgot to mention the Downsview Park TTC/GO Train station. This involved changing the name of another TTC station that had been called Downsview, and I don't seem to recall any anger-farmed outrage over that.
I suppose someone could point out that the Main Street TTC and Danforth GO stations are close to each other with different names, but they aren't the same station, and aren't connected or about to be.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Bloor GO/UPX and Dundas West TTC subway will soon be connected (the train station is nearly on top of the subway station). As at Kipling and Kennedy, it might make sense for them to have the same name, and a name that isn't already one (Bloor) that belongs to another one in a different location.
I suppose someone could point out that the Main Street TTC and Danforth GO stations are close to each other with different names, but they aren't the same station, and aren't connected or about to be.

As mentioned elsewhere, Bloor GO/UPX and Dundas West TTC stations, should be renamed to Roncesvalles Stations. Already e-mailed to the powers-that-be. Others should do the same.

 

[PL1]

As mentioned elsewhere, Bloor GO/UPX and Dundas West TTC stations, should be renamed to Roncesvalles Stations. Already e-mailed to the powers-that-be. Others should do the same.

How about... Crossways Station?
<Ducks and sprints away>

Edit: joking here, if it wasn't obvious

 

[SubHuman]

How about... Crossways Station?
<Ducks and sprints away>

I'm guessing you're not being serious, but with the attitude shown by the building's owner(s) over the decades, they might take legal action to stop it, as much fun as it might be to think of how it would annoy them.