[Steve X]

The TTC Board Agenda for next week has a HUGE listing of subway and streetcar closures and diversions planned for 2025. SEE https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/ttc/bgrd/backgroundfile-252236.pdf

For those interested in seeing TTC Board agendas - they are now (only) posted on the City's TMMIS site https://secure.toronto.ca/council/#/committees/2944/26568

This list is in line with previous years. It’s not consider huge anymore. The problem is they have become regular interruptions while getting less done than the Byford era. I don’t know what they need, perhaps just close a portion for a week and just get the slow zone done.

TTC says we will always have slow zone. Yup I accept that but I don’t accept that they can’t clear those zones within 2 weeks and requires multiple weekend closures to try to fix it. What are they doing? Applying one band aid fix at a time?

 

[Northern Light]

Unscheduled shuttle buses are never going to handle a peak subway outage. I suspect you'd be faster to walk from Broadview to St. George. It's only about a 40-minute walk, and certainly when I've done it on Bloor and you are overtaking the shuttle buses stuck in traffic.

I would note, I wasn't going west of Broadview, which I indicated in my post, and I didn't use the shuttle buses.

For those who were, however, walking in -20 conditions, at the end of a work day doesn't seem like a reasonable ask of many, nor can the sidewalks actually absorb that volume.

Yes, shuttle buses will always be inadequate, which again, I stated, but the gap between what was needed and delivered was unacceptably large, and the system can and should do better.

 

[smallspy]

3) The turnaround time for trains at Broadview is dreadful. It was so slow it caused trains to be stopped east of Coxwell due to 'traffic' in the tunnels ahead. This indicates a turn time greater than 4M, and I think it might be closer to 7M.
There is obviously something wrong with the way the signals and track are laid out for the gap track here. My observation was, that no train could head west of of Chester while a train was in motion on the gap track. Perhaps @smallspy can speak to the set up here, but there must be a better way to do this.

The issue at Broadview is three-fold:
- One is the track layout involves a long stretch from the platforms at Broadview to the switch into the centre track. This means that each train occupies this stretch of single track for a while, limiting throughput.
- Two is that the type of switches to access the centre track was changed a couple of years ago to a type that limits the speed of trains using the diverging direction. This was done for maintenance and serviceability reasons - the new switches need far, far less maintenance - but at the expense of speed. And so those trains occupy that single track from above for even longer.
- Three is that the signal system in that location is not really properly set up for terminal operations. What is being done today wasn't even possible 20 years ago - they've made some changes to the signals in the last little while to make it more useful. But had it been set up properly for this kind of thing, trains could pull right up to the switch at the west end of the centre track, rather than sitting on the platform at Chester for the eastbound to make its way back through. That would require more circuitry, signal heads, trip arms and relays in order to make it work, and that costs money to install, operate and maintain. And for 99.999% of the time, it would be of no use.

Dan

 

[Northern Light]

The issue at Broadview is three-fold:
- One is the track layout involves a long stretch from the platforms at Broadview to the switch into the centre track. This means that each train occupies this stretch of single track for a while, limiting throughput.
- Two is that the type of switches to access the centre track was changed a couple of years ago to a type that limits the speed of trains using the diverging direction. This was done for maintenance and serviceability reasons - the new switches need far, far less maintenance - but at the expense of speed. And so those trains occupy that single track from above for even longer.
- Three is that the signal system in that location is not really properly set up for terminal operations. What is being done today wasn't even possible 20 years ago - they've made some changes to the signals in the last little while to make it more useful. But had it been set up properly for this kind of thing, trains could pull right up to the switch at the west end of the centre track, rather than sitting on the platform at Chester for the eastbound to make its way back through. That would require more circuitry, signal heads, trip arms and relays in order to make it work, and that costs money to install, operate and maintain. And for 99.999% of the time, it would be of no use.

Dan

Thanks for the insight Dan, much appreciated.

While I get the expense issue of maintaining something that's only for 'emergencies' (though with scheduled weekend closures may see use twice a month as-of-right) it strikes me as necessary given the absence of more and better turn-back locations. The very large gap between Broadview and Woodbine, and the fairly large, but also strategic gap between St. George and Broadview really ought to be serviced by at least one additional, and better turnback point (each). But even if feasible, I imagine the cost to add these, including tunnel alterations would be vastly more than some improvement at this existing location.

 

[DSCToronto]

Steve Munro has posted an excellent article on how/why TTC service (for the customer) is far from being restored to pre-covid levels due to more congestion, longer trip times, more layover time and, of course, sloppy route management even if the number of hours or vehicles has increased. Well worth reading! https://stevemunro.ca/

 

[T3G]

Edit to add, I wonder if it would be feasible to put a crossover on the viaduct? (Just a thought)

There isn't really anywhere between Broadview and Castle Frank where such a thing would fit. The tracks below the viaduct are physically incongruent.

 

[Richard White]

Thanks for the insight Dan, much appreciated.

While I get the expense issue of maintaining something that's only for 'emergencies' (though with scheduled weekend closures may see use twice a month as-of-right) it strikes me as necessary given the absence of more and better turn-back locations. The very large gap between Broadview and Woodbine, and the fairly large, but also strategic gap between St. George and Broadview really ought to be serviced by at least one additional, and better turnback point (each). But even if feasible, I imagine the cost to add these, including tunnel alterations would be vastly more than some improvement at this existing location.

There really is not much space. You have the wye junction at Greenwood/Donlands for Yard Access which precludes the addition of a centre track there.

The only other place which would make any sense is Pape but given how close it is to Chester I am not sure how useful it would be. A case could be made however for it given the crossovers at Vic Park, Warden, and Kennedy.

 

[jje1000]

At this point, heads need to roll. You can't have operators behaving this way, and you can't be doing such a terrible job of crisis management on top of the terrible job at being a reliable service provider.

I am warming up to the concept that the TTC needs to be completely rebuilt on its management side.

It just feels extremely unresponsive and ossified as an organisation, and somehow helpless in addressing its challenges. It's not longer sufficient to have a 'good-enough' TTC, especially as even developing countries are starting to outpace us in terms of quality transit- we need to start asking why a wealth of issues small and large seem intractable to the TTC- missing ceiling/wall panels, broken info screens/next bus arrivals, inaudible speakers, poorly-run shuttle buses, slow zones, failing reliability, poor visual identity/wayfinding, etc..

Also of note- a much-needed new motion from Matlow:

TTC1.10 - Addressing Service Delays on the TTC - by Commissioner Josh Matlow, seconded by Chair Jamaal Myers​

Consideration Type: ACTION

Recommendations​

That the TTC Board requests Staff report to the Board in Q2 2025 with the following:

1. Findings from the UITP TTC maintenance review that shall also include a focus on the ATC signaling system to assess system performance and any root cause(s) of signal failures.

2. A review of communication protocols with riders during service interruptions, which includes:

1. Auditing all PA systems to ensure that announcements are intelligible;
2. Enhancing notices for the hearing impaired;
3. Improving timeliness of service disruption and resumption notices in stations and shuttle bus stops directly to affected riders through increased TTC personnel complement or other means;
4. Improving the way public notices of disruptions are communicated to riders through media; and
5. Exploring the creation of a TTC app or partnering with an existing transit app provider that provides riders with relevant, real-time information.

3. In consultation with ATU 113, the potential for improving the efficiency of shuttle bus operations and more timely commencement of shuttle buses in response to service disruptions, including an assessment of how many buses are available to provide emergency shuttle buses at any given time and utilization rates of "Run As Directed" buses.

4. In consultation with the Division of Transportation Services, the feasibility and efficacy of providing options and redundancy for transit on surface routes, including priority lanes for surface transit.

5. Solutions to the unauthorized access to subway tracks.

Summary​

Service disruptions on our subways are becoming more and more frequent. The recent suspension of subway service during morning rush hour multiple days in a row has caused significant chaos for transit riders. Too many Torontonians have been late for work or school, stuck in trains underground or waiting too long for overcrowded shuttle buses.

The causes of these disruptions were varied, including a trespasser on the tracks on Monday, December 9th that interrupted service on Line 1 for an hour and a half, and signal issues that led to the entirety of Line 1 being shut down for an hour in the morning of Wednesday, December 11th.

Torontonians are deeply frustrated with the unreliability of TTC service caused by these service disruptions. We risk losing riders if they cannot count on the transit system to get them to work, school, or appointments on time. We must address this issue seriously to regain the trust of transit users.

This motion requests TTC Staff to:

• Conduct an external review of signalling system maintenance.
• Improve communication with riders during service disruptions.
• Look at ways to make shuttle bus service start sooner after a disruption and ensure they run more efficiently.
• Look at the feasibility of providing more options for transit riders so that if there are subway disruptions, other modes are available, including the potential of priority surface lanes on parallel routes.

Agenda Item History 2025.TTC1.10

Agenda Item History 2025.TTC1.10

secure.toronto.ca

 

[kvvoyage]

Noted an increased presence of non-artic buses on the 939 recently - has something gone wrong with the LFSAs that are usually assigned or just an allocation change?

 

[APTA-2048]

Noted an increased presence of non-artic buses on the 939 recently - has something gone wrong with the LFSAs that are usually assigned or just an allocation change?

I can’t recall exactly why. I’d have to ask my friend again. But it has something to do with having to cross multiple railway tracks in an articulated bus. It really just seems like another over reaction safety rule that makes service worse.

 

[T3G]

The reasoning that I heard from a driver is that they get stuck on railway crossings during the snow.

Not sure how much I believe that, though, because one would think that this would be a problem at all railway crossings, not just the ones on Finch, and the artics certainly have not been removed from any other route. If it is true, it would be in typical TTC fashion to ruin the service completely due to the 4 days of snow we get yearly, rather than banning the artics from going out in snowstorms or doing a switch-a-roo with some non problematic route during same

 

[kvvoyage]

The reasoning that I heard from a driver is that they get stuck on railway crossings during the snow.

Not sure how much I believe that, though, because one would think that this would be a problem at all railway crossings, not just the ones on Finch, and the artics certainly have not been removed from any other route. If it is true, it would be in typical TTC fashion to ruin the service completely due to the 4 days of snow we get yearly, rather than banning the artics from going out in snowstorms or doing a switch-a-roo with some non problematic route during same

My point too - I frequent Kennedy a lot for my commute and routes such as 129/904 still utilise artics. In 939's case the 94 series still seem to be used.

 

[evandyk]

Alternatively, take another route. 505 to Dundas TTC. Though starting at Broadview might be crowded. You could always walk down to Gerrard and take the 506; or backtrack to Pape and take the 72/506 - they'd still be useable; I'm surprised at how many riders don't try alternatives when the subway is down.

I commute with my son on Line 2 and the 505 is our backup when the subway goes down. It takes about an extra half hour to get from Broadview to west of Spadina, at which point you can go back up to Bloor on Spadina, Bathurst or Dufferin, depending on where you're going (there are other options, but not with 5 minute service frequencies, which is my minimum requirement for trusting a route). We've done it a bunch of times out of necessity (probably less than 5 in a year) and last Friday just for fun. He likes the long way.

 

[smallspy]

Noted an increased presence of non-artic buses on the 939 recently - has something gone wrong with the LFSAs that are usually assigned or just an allocation change?

Due to a number of incidents over the past several months at the level crossings along the route, along with an extreme over-abundance of caution, it was decided to remove all articulated buses from the route permanently. This decision was taken prior to the snow flying - there have been no issues with the buses operating in the snow.

For the January board, they basically returned the service to how it was before the artics were scheduled. For the March board, they are increasing rush hour service by another 20+% over that number.

Dan

 

[Steve X]

TTC certainly had no problem operating the Orion III on the 39E Finch Express back in the days and on the 85 too when they still had the at grade crossing. Perhaps traffic wasn't as bad back then with cars trying to cut in front of the bus while they wait for a long enough space to clear the crossing in a traffic jam.