nfitz
Superstar
I assume for elevator issues, you'd just park a wheelchair bus at the two stations, and shuttle back and forth on demand.
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- Thread starter PMT
- Start date
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
Isn't it kind of expensive to always run a parallel service? They have bus bridge plans in place already for line shutdowns, they can just activate some of the shuttles.
If there's enough local stops in-between stations that there's demand for ridership, sure, but most of the time you're going to run an empty bus up and down the street just in case.
In the case of newer lines, don't many new stations have redundant elevator by having one at each entrance?
In an even better choice you can install elevators in pairs, but afaik, Ottawa is the only city in Canada doing that in new stations along with Boston, DC and San Francisco in the US
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Obviously 100% accessibility is a good goal and will help more than just the disabled as people with strollers, heavy items etc benefit from Elevators.Older systems around the world are generally behind the TTC in terms of accessibility.
In NYC only 28% of stations are accessible.
London, UK is at 33%
Accessibility of transport in London - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Paris is at less than 10%
Paris metro worst in Western Europe for disabled access as it hosts Paralympics
Our analysis reveals how disabled access to public transport compares in the UK and across Europeinews.co.uk
Chicago is at 71%
Accessible transit - CTA
Learn about accessible transit services via bus and train from the CTA.www.transitchicago.com
Toronto is at 78.5%
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I think if you look back, what you would see is that the task of retrofits was seen as so wildly expensive in larger, older systems, the assumption tended to be that it wasn't do-able and that para-transit such as Wheel Trans would remain the norm.
For systems engaged in new construction or with much smaller as-built infrastructure, it was seen as much more do-able to be accessible from the get-go.
The funny part to me is when people bring up wheel trans because it seems there is a lot of push back when suggesting to scale back wheel trans when the system is fully accessible.
Wheel-Trans users ask TTC to protect door-to-door bus services in Toronto - The Green Line
In a recent TTC board meeting, Wheel-Trans users push back against "family of services" model which they say is inequitable and inaccessible.
thegreenline.to
Even the stations with Elevators have a piss poor design for the most part. "roll on roll off" means there are doors on both sides so users won't have to awkwardly back in or out and can just move forward at their floor.
drum118
Superstar
The TTC Board has approved the award of a contract to make Old Mill Station on Line 2 accessible, with the construction of two new elevators at the station. Once construction is complete at the station, all 70 TTC stations will be accessible.
The contract, valued at $25.69 million, was awarded to Maystar General Contractors Inc., with construction scheduled to begin in Q2 2025. In addition to the elevators, work will also include improved signage throughout the station, repairing finishes and installing tactile attention tiles, and installing CCTV security cameras along the accessible pathway.
“We’re committed to making transit accessible for all Torontonians, and this is good news for residents who use Old Mill Station regularly,” said Mayor Olivia Chow. “Improving accessibility ensures that people across the city are able to reliably travel to school, work, home, and access essential services, regardless of ability.”
“The TTC is working hard to make its vehicles, facilities and services accessible for everyone, and this contract award is a big step in that direction,” said TTC Chair Jamaal Myers. “We continue to work towards accessibility at all our stations, and once Old Mill Station is complete, every station will be barrier-free.”
“Last year, we put elevators in service at three stations – Donlands, Glencairn and Castle Frank – resulting in 57 out of our 70 stations now being accessible,” said TTC CEO Greg Percy. “Our entire fleet of buses, subway trains and streetcars are accessible, and we are working hard to make sure that residents of all abilities can use public transit with dignity and ease.”
The TTC’s Easier Access Program will make all subway stations accessible and is partially funded by the Government of Canada through the Canada Community-Building Fund (CCBF).
Construction is currently underway at 12 stations, with High Park, Rosedale, Greenwood, Christie, Summerhill, and Warden stations expected to be completed this year. With the exception of Old Mill Station, all other stations are scheduled to be completed by 2026. A completion schedule for Old Mill Station will be reported to the Board at a later date.
The contract, valued at $25.69 million, was awarded to Maystar General Contractors Inc., with construction scheduled to begin in Q2 2025. In addition to the elevators, work will also include improved signage throughout the station, repairing finishes and installing tactile attention tiles, and installing CCTV security cameras along the accessible pathway.
“We’re committed to making transit accessible for all Torontonians, and this is good news for residents who use Old Mill Station regularly,” said Mayor Olivia Chow. “Improving accessibility ensures that people across the city are able to reliably travel to school, work, home, and access essential services, regardless of ability.”
“The TTC is working hard to make its vehicles, facilities and services accessible for everyone, and this contract award is a big step in that direction,” said TTC Chair Jamaal Myers. “We continue to work towards accessibility at all our stations, and once Old Mill Station is complete, every station will be barrier-free.”
“Last year, we put elevators in service at three stations – Donlands, Glencairn and Castle Frank – resulting in 57 out of our 70 stations now being accessible,” said TTC CEO Greg Percy. “Our entire fleet of buses, subway trains and streetcars are accessible, and we are working hard to make sure that residents of all abilities can use public transit with dignity and ease.”
The TTC’s Easier Access Program will make all subway stations accessible and is partially funded by the Government of Canada through the Canada Community-Building Fund (CCBF).
Construction is currently underway at 12 stations, with High Park, Rosedale, Greenwood, Christie, Summerhill, and Warden stations expected to be completed this year. With the exception of Old Mill Station, all other stations are scheduled to be completed by 2026. A completion schedule for Old Mill Station will be reported to the Board at a later date.
Northern Light
Superstar
These pics will be a bit dated, but having just run across them, I don't recall there having been posted here, apologies if I'm in error on that.
This is the College Station Easier Access project, photos by the contractor, from their site:
Source: https://maystargeneral.com/projects/college-station-second-exit-entrance-and-easier-access
This is the College Station Easier Access project, photos by the contractor, from their site:
Source: https://maystargeneral.com/projects/college-station-second-exit-entrance-and-easier-access
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
Somewhat related, how accessible is PATH? I haven't been there in years, most of my GTA travels in recent years have been outside of downtown.
However I remember trying to push my daughter's stroller around the Montreal underground, and it was terrible. Of course downtown Montreal is much hillier.
But it would be disappointing to achieve all this easier access, just to be stymied as soon as you leave the station and have to turn around and go to street level all the time
However I remember trying to push my daughter's stroller around the Montreal underground, and it was terrible. Of course downtown Montreal is much hillier.
But it would be disappointing to achieve all this easier access, just to be stymied as soon as you leave the station and have to turn around and go to street level all the time
nfitz
Superstar
It's mostly accessible. There's some odd missing things though - is the access from Scotiabank to the bridge over the Lakeshore (under the Gardiner) still stairs-only?
The challenge though is navigating it. It's challenging enough for the able-bodied to figure out which way to go. Even at Union. If you know it, it's easy. If you don't - it can be a challenge.
Northern Light
Superstar
This is a map of the PATH:
Note that it shows obstacles to accessibility (stairs) and then shows you in boxes beside the stairs how (or if) there is mitigation, such as a ramp or an elevator.
I've enlarged the section running parallel to Queen so you can clearly see the symbols (you can enlarge/zoom the map at the link I've provided to examine any relevant section for you.
You can see stairs are represented by straight lines across the Path, you can then see a box with a wheelchair and incline (ramp), an escalator, and an elevator as well as plain old stairs (not accessible).
In general, if you want to cover a good chunk of territory, there is sufficient mitigation, but there will be a few elevator diversions.
txlseries4
Active Member
Speculatively/anecdotally, a friend of mine is into rollerblading and in the warm months meets up with others downtown to skate in places like College Park or through the streets, and the odd time they've taken to rolling through the PATH (ruffling some feathers, I'm sure). Occasional stairs probably pose a fun challenge for them instead the detrimental barrier they are for others, but that they're even choosing to skate there paints me a picture of it being fairly accessible.
Great reminder imo of how accessibility and inclusive design benefits far more people than just those who have a permanent impairment, and how impairments aren't only permanent (blind, wheelchair user) but can be temporary (broken arm) or situational (pushing a stroller), and the number of people who are helped by accommodations balloons when including temporary/situational circumstances.
Years ago Microsoft published an Inclusive 101 Guidebook that does a great job at re-framing disability and impairment, and I think applying these principals/ideas to public spaces, like transit or the PATH, is more significant than it being applied in tech.
A graphic from that guidebook I quite like
rbt
Senior Member
Kinda. There is an elevator at the west side of the arena but you need to go outside to get it. There's also one in Maple Leaf Square but again you need to cross from Union to MLS lobby outside.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
When I worked in the path I found it annoying the security had to come and use a key for the wheelchair lifts between some of the staircases to go between buildings.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
There’s a number of these in the PATH. It’s annoying and I don’t think we should accept this as accessible. Even a new build like CIBC Square has this dumb setup.
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
I was at York University station today, and saw the "ghost" future 2nd elevator shaft at the main entrance .To me it seems an odd form of penny pinching. Like all stations on the Vaughan extension it's grand and elaborate, and it seems bizarre that a redundant elevator was where they drew the line on expenses, yet they went to the trouble of roughing it in
turbanplanner
Senior Member
For a few months I had the city of Toronto and Vaughn fighting over who owns the street lights on Steeles in front of Pioneer village, in the end apparently neither city owns them so the lights will remain burnt out.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
You would still have to pay to continuously maintain the elevator if it was installed.