[crs1026]

Or perhaps it’s another example and reason why p3 projects don’t work and cost 3x more than they ought too. I’ve watched work be done, undone, redone, and then undone again over and over and then we wonder how we’re at $1BN+ a km when it ought to cost $350MM a km

That's certainly been the case, but do you have any facts that would point to the OL east corridor being part of that? To this sidewalk observer, that part of the project is going extremely well with solid progress being made and no evidence of rework, unforeseen problems, or quality deficiencies.
The strategy of moving the active railway to the south side and completing that side last strikes me as eminently sensible - it allows the greatest field of construction activity and movement to get the first 75% of the works done in a single site. Having to then shift the tracks to get the south side done is not wasteful. And so far the whole site appears to be coming together well. Likewise with the new Don bridge - that work seems to be ticking right along. I don't hear anyone saying that the Broadview extension is overdue or causing other impacts by not being ready this early.
We don't have cost data for this segment, certainly it's a very labour and equipment intensive project, but that's a welcome change from other ML projects that we have been watching for years that don't see activity for months at a time. I suspect the bigger challenges and glitches are in the tunnelled sections.
My only reservation about the east corridor is the amount of flat, taggable surface that has been created and awaits grafitti. (Just look at how that Kotsy guy gets around lol) I wonder how that will be managed.

- Paul

 

[kotsy]

Sections of the LSE is closed this weekend for track resurfacings, track installation and graffiti removal. According to GO's website, there won't be service at Rouge Hill, Guildwood, Eglinton, Scarborough, and Danforth

 

[kotsy]

Edited my original post with which stations are actually closed (it's not the whole line).

 

[PL1]

Edited my original post with which stations are actually closed (it's not the whole line).

There will be no trains at all on LSE, with GO bus replacement. However the stations you mentioned will have no service with buses.

 

[kotsy]

There will be no trains at all on LSE, with GO bus replacement. However the stations you mentioned will have no service with buses.

Thanks for the clarrification!

 

[TorontoPotential]

That's certainly been the case, but do you have any facts that would point to the OL east corridor being part of that? To this sidewalk observer, that part of the project is going extremely well with solid progress being made and no evidence of rework, unforeseen problems, or quality deficiencies.
The strategy of moving the active railway to the south side and completing that side last strikes me as eminently sensible - it allows the greatest field of construction activity and movement to get the first 75% of the works done in a single site. Having to then shift the tracks to get the south side done is not wasteful. And so far the whole site appears to be coming together well. Likewise with the new Don bridge - that work seems to be ticking right along. I don't hear anyone saying that the Broadview extension is overdue or causing other impacts by not being ready this early.
We don't have cost data for this segment, certainly it's a very labour and equipment intensive project, but that's a welcome change from other ML projects that we have been watching for years that don't see activity for months at a time. I suspect the bigger challenges and glitches are in the tunnelled sections.
My only reservation about the east corridor is the amount of flat, taggable surface that has been created and awaits grafitti. (Just look at how that Kotsy guy gets around lol) I wonder how that will be managed.

- Paul

Yes the OL project is proceeding well - but so did the Crosstown, initially. My bigger concern is that European cities build fully underground Subways (with stations featuring stunning finishes) at a cost of $250-$350MM per km CAD and yet we accept that Metrolinx builds basic, sterile projects for +$1BN per km (and never one time) there is either a major problem with the P3 model or the entire Metrolinx team should be fired - -especially given TTC used to build them in that cost range.

 

[Khamaa]

My question was inspired by the excited people on Reddit thinking the express trains are coming back to LSE - given the track installations as posted above. From what I see we are far from that. Curious how will Metrolinx use the extra tracks while waiting on other segments. But I should have posted it in Go Expansion forum thread.

 

[nfitz]

Yes the OL project is proceeding well - but so did the Crosstown, initially. used to build them in that cost range.

The crosstown did horrifically. It was 5.5 years from issuing the first contract for tunnelling to the main stations and systems contract for Crosstown.

It was 15 months between the first and last main contract for Ontario Line. 5.5 years from the first Ontario Line contract is mid-2028.

 

[TorontoPotential]

The crosstown did horrifically. It was 5.5 years from issuing the first contract for tunnelling to the main stations and systems contract for Crosstown.

It was 15 months between the first and last main contract for Ontario Line. 5.5 years from the first Ontario Line contract is mid-2028.

I guess we’re spending more than $1BN per km to accelerate to only 2x the timeframe this would take to be built anywhere else from the usual 5x?

 

[nfitz]

I guess we’re spending more than $1BN per km to accelerate to only 2x the timeframe this would take to be built anywhere else from the usual 5x?

Anywhere in the world? Line 5 took about 15 years. So it should take 3 years EVERYWHERE else.

Looking at recent examples, the London Elizabeth Line took 13 years before the phased opening started, and all sections of the line didn't fully open until a year later - 14 years later. Even the short 3-km 2-station Northern Line extension took 7 years.

The even shorter 2.6 km, 3-station Second Avenue subway in New York City took almost 10 years. The 2.4 km 2-station Line 7 extension took 8 years.

In Paris, the new 28 km, but only 10-station Line 16 started construction over 10 years ago, in 2016, and the first 7 stations are planned to be open later this year. The recent extensions on Line 14 took 10 year - even though one of them was a 1-station 1.1 km extension!

Going to Asia, In Seoul, the 11-km extension of Line 8 opened in 2024 after 10-years of construction.

Even in Toronto the recent Line 1 extension to Vaughan took just under 10 years; which seems pretty typical (despite all the delays we heard about). Yeah, Eglinton was extreme - but Toronto speeds don't seem significantly different.

I'm not finding anywhere in the world where a subway was built 5 times faster!

 

[Burnt creek]

Sections of the LSE is closed this weekend for track resurfacings, track installation and graffiti removal. According to GO's website, there won't be service at Rouge Hill, Guildwood, Eglinton, Scarborough, and Danforth
View attachment 727431

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These updates look identical in style and format to those of the Line 5 construction and other Metrolinx projects of the past. And its very frustrating and annoying to read. I have worked on projects all my working life and I have had to do stakeholder communication and producing progress reports/ documents for stakeholders. Ok, my field is not construction or construction projects, but some the practices of status reporting are pretty consistent in all fields & industries. And, if I sent out something like that to stakeholders, i wouldn't have lasted. The most important thing that stakeholders (i.e..: the public is considered a stakeholder for publicly funded transit projects) want to see or inferred is Progress against Planned. And I have never seen this in any of those construction updates for Metrolinx projects.

I have never seen those reports communicate anything directly to indirectly relating to how. the project is progressing and that is the number one thing that stakeholders on any project want to know from those reports. Instead, they give us atom-level pedantic details broken into tiny pieces that obscure the whole bigger picture and tell you nothing relative or relevant. Stakeholders don't care for things like : "Excavation is continuing at XYZ" or "This pole has to be moved" or worst still " Work may be rescheduled due to inclement weather or unforeseen circumstances". Well Duh!!. They tell us nothing at a "high level" or big picture. Perhaps, some of the intent here is to alert the the affected neighborhoods, fair enough but if you look closely it fails even at that level. The public should be getting the same info as the public officials are getting, rather than hear the news through the media, remember, we are all stakeholders.

 

[TorontoPotential]

These updates look identical in style and format to those of the Line 5 construction and other Metrolinx projects of the past. And its very frustrating and annoying to read. I have worked on projects all my working life and I have had to do stakeholder communication and producing progress reports/ documents for stakeholders. Ok, my field is not construction or construction projects, but some the practices of status reporting are pretty consistent in all fields & industries. And, if I sent out something like that to stakeholders, i wouldn't have lasted. The most important thing that stakeholders (i.e..: the public is considered a stakeholder for publicly funded transit projects) want to see or inferred is Progress against Planned. And I have never seen this in any of those construction updates for Metrolinx projects.

I have never seen those reports communicate anything directly to indirectly relating to how. the project is progressing and that is the number one thing that stakeholders on any project want to know from those reports. Instead, they give us atomized and pedantic details broken into tiny pieces that obscure the whole bigger picture and tell you nothing relative or relevant. Stakeholders don't care for things like : "Excavation is continuing at XYZ" or "This pole has to be moved" or worst still " Work may be rescheduled due to inclement weather or unforeseen circumstances". Well Duh!!. They tell us nothing at a "high level" or big picture. Perhaps, some of the intent here is to alert the the affected neighborhoods, fair enough but if you look closely it fails even at that level. The public should be getting the same info as the public officials are getting, rather than hear the news through the media, remember, we are all stakeholders.

100% this. Bang on.

 

[crs1026]

The most important thing that stakeholders (i.e..: the public is considered a stakeholder for publicly funded transit projects) want to see or inferred is Progress against Planned. And I have never seen this in any of those construction updates for Metrolinx projects.

So very well put. The problem with reporting that isn't anchored in goals and planned milestones is that the management level discussion doesn't go there. Frank, candid, self-critical acceptance of the truth never happens, and so corrective actions aren't decided on.

The public should be getting the same info as the public officials are getting, rather than hear the news through the media, remember, we are all stakeholders.

Completely agree. Amazing how Ford has forgotten about the little guy here.

That's the job of the Board of Directors, and it isn't happening.

- Paul

 

[christiesplits]

Today. The DVP bridge from the Lakeshore East train.

 

[DMICS]

Sections of the LSE is closed this weekend for track resurfacings, track installation and graffiti removal. According to GO's website, there won't be service at Rouge Hill, Guildwood, Eglinton, Scarborough, and Danforth
View attachment 727431

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View attachment 727428

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Thanks for the heads up.

Guess I’m cancelling my weekend plans downtown.

If this is a sign of what’s to come this summer I hope a press release/advance schedule of closures is announced/posted online.