To be a bit pedantic, AI in photo processing usually implies access and blending of the user’s image with millions of other images in an AI database, along with functions to create desired textures, lighting, etc..To use these, the image has to be sent to a server or host computer someplace, and you get the result back from the server.

“Photoshopping” programs that process in camera, phone, or on a desktop computer do not draw on such databases, and are not really AI…. They ate just apps, and they get better every day, and makers of phones and other devices cram more and more processing functions into the OS. Your phone camera may be doing all sorts of things to your images before you look at them - technically this is just processing, but not AI.

- Paul
 
mr_content said:
Bringing the streetcar network into the 21st century by allowing it to operate as a modern tram network would go much further toward the goal of moving people quickly than removing it.

A major appeal of the Ontario Line, which should be replicated for any future lines into downtown, is that it doesn't just follow arterials/corridors like the streetcar lines, instead connecting major nodes/destinations. It figures to intersect every streetcar line except the 507 and 512 without meaningfully duplicating any streetcar service. Actually having a network with a logical local/rapid/regional transit hierarchy working harmoniously is something to be built on; just "upgrading" one mode of transit to a higher-capacity one equipped for a different purpose doesn't help urban mobility in the way Toronto needs.
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I considered that perspective in writing my post. Trams will do what you’re saying in the suburbs well. But another 2-4 Ontario Lines connecting nodes and destinations downtown with the suburbs could eliminate the need for a good portion of the downtown legacy streetcar network altogether (if not all of it).

Most people don’t need a surface route connection when there’s always a rapid transit station a maximum of a 15-minute walk away from their destination in my opinion. For the elderly and sick that need a surface route to get to their destination, a bus can still be provided. You can get to a point of transit development downtown where few people need streetcars or buses. I think that we’re headed in that direction due to population and congestion growth. Walking is often faster than riding the streetcar downtown.
 
"Streetcars and subway-like rapid transit lines serve different roles in urban transit: streetcars are needed for their closely spaced, accessible stops in dense neighborhoods and higher ridership potential on surface routes, whereas rapid transit lines provide higher speeds and capacity over longer distances. Streetcars offer a more comfortable, accessible, and efficient ride on busy city streets, featuring near level boarding and a smoother ride than buses, making them ideal for connecting communities, even when operating in mixed traffic or with priority lanes."

The problem is that Toronto has currently the slowest tram or streetcar network in the world. See the video at https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-streetcar-network.27667/post-2260454 for why. It can be better, if the politicians, bureaucrats and others can remedy it.
 
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junctionist said:
I considered that perspective in writing my post. Trams will do what you’re saying in the suburbs well. But another 2-4 Ontario Lines connecting nodes and destinations downtown with the suburbs could eliminate the need for a good portion of the downtown legacy streetcar network altogether (if not all of it).

Most people don’t need a surface route connection when there’s always a rapid transit station a maximum of a 15-minute walk away from their destination in my opinion. For the elderly and sick that need a surface route to get to their destination, a bus can still be provided. You can get to a point of transit development downtown where few people need streetcars or buses. I think that we’re headed in that direction due to population and congestion growth. Walking is often faster than riding the streetcar downtown.
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I don't think total elimination would be the product of a more nodal focuses rapid transit network, as there are still benefits to having a street level transit system to serve other needs - including local access. Making surface routes more consistent and reliable would still be the goal, particularly with higher headways.
 
Monarch Butterfly said:
"Streetcars and subway-like rapid transit lines serve different roles in urban transit: streetcars are needed for their closely spaced, accessible stops in dense neighborhoods and higher ridership potential on surface routes, whereas rapid transit lines provide higher speeds and capacity over longer distances. Streetcars offer a more comfortable, accessible, and efficient ride on busy city streets, featuring near level boarding and a smoother ride than buses, making them ideal for connecting communities, even when operating in mixed traffic or with priority lanes."

The problem is that Toronto has currently the slowly tram or streetcar network in the world. See the video at https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-streetcar-network.27667/post-2260454 for why. It can be better, if the politicians, bureaucrats and others can remedy it.
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It really depends on where and how its built. Cut and Cover Subways like the Yonge and Bloor/Danforth Subway, as well as the NYC Subway function as excellent local rail service that really doesn't compromise in terms of accessibility (unless you're in a wheelchair unfortunately). In NYC specifically, subway stations are often immediately built below the street without any sort of mezzanine meaning you can reach the platform level in as little as 15 steps - even at core stations like 34th Street Penn Station. IMO, stations like these are a lot more convenient and easier to access than waiting for a pedestrian signal to cross to reach a median island for a streetcar/LRT stop (again, massive asterisk for wheelchair users). This unfortunately doesn't apply for lines like the Ontario Line which are so deep - I'm pretty sure it will be faster to walk between stations like Osgoode and Queen than to take an escalator/elevator down to the platform level, even if you take into account the tiny headways.
 
The Yonge subway did replace the Yong streetcar, but there are still buses running along the route.

When it comes to moving people, less modes does not mean better. In the sprawl of the suburbs and exurbs, a streetcar would not make much sense, but in the downtown core with the population density it has, it still makes good sense, even after multiple "Ontario Lines" are built.
 
micheal_can said:
The Yonge subway did replace the Yong streetcar, but there are still buses running along the route.

When it comes to moving people, less modes does not mean better. In the sprawl of the suburbs and exurbs, a streetcar would not make much sense, but in the downtown core with the population density it has, it still makes good sense, even after multiple "Ontario Lines" are built.
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Exactly this. What we need is a flex street on nodes like King where a centre island isn’t possible. Make it as pedestrian as possible and as little car oriented as possible. If it weren’t for all the condo or office building garages accessing King I’d say make it pedestrian only but that’s not possible. We need an east west thoroughfare that is as pedestrian as possible like the St. Catherine sections are in Montreal
 
From Google:

"Buses on Yonge Street north of Eglinton, particularly the #97 Yonge route, often experience wider headways (the time between buses) as they move further north from the station, with some data showing increased spread and bus bunching, especially during the PM peak and evening hours.

When headways are "wide," it means there's a greater variation in the time between consecutive buses. This could be due to a long gap (e.g., 25 minutes) followed by a much shorter gap (e.g., 5 minutes) as a bus catches up or another bus is delayed."

The 97 YONGE was supposed to provide "frequent" service between the rather wide station spacing north of Eglinton to Finch. "Frequent" is it not.
 
Ontario Line will not "serve" Queen street, in the way Yonge line serves the downtown section of Yonge Street.

On Queen Street: 4 stations between Spadina and Sherbourne, 500-600 m distances between stations, that's not bad. But then, a 1.7 km gap, and one more station in the east, Riverside-Leslieville. That's it.

No stations in the east from Riverside to Vic Park, and no stations in the west from Spadina to Roncesvalles.

I'd rather keep the primary 501 Queen streetcar service for the whole length, Neville to Humber, without creating a short artificial gap in the middle where the streetcar and the new subway co-exist.

In order to better balance the service given the fact that some riders will transfer to the subway, could reorganize the 503 (operate between the Bingham loop and the Riverside-Leslieville Stn), and add a rush-hour branch 501S (between the Neville loop and the Riverside-Leslieville Stn).
 
Rainforest said:
Ontario Line will not "serve" Queen street, in the way Yonge line serves the downtown section of Yonge Street.

On Queen Street: 4 stations between Spadina and Sherbourne, 500-600 m distances between stations, that's not bad. But then, a 1.7 km gap, and one more station in the east, Riverside-Leslieville. That's it.
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It will also be less than 400 m from Corktown (Parliament) and Bathurst-King stations to Queen. And less than 450 metres from Broadview and Queen to East Harbour station. So there's that.

Rainforest said:
I'd rather keep the primary 501 Queen streetcar service for the whole length, Neville to Humber, without creating a short artificial gap in the middle where the streetcar and the new subway co-exist.
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Yes. I suspect there'll still be plenty of traffic. I'd think the 504 might see more impact to tell the truth.
 
416InTrouble said:
Exactly this. What we need is a flex street on nodes like King where a centre island isn’t possible. Make it as pedestrian as possible and as little car oriented as possible. If it weren’t for all the condo or office building garages accessing King I’d say make it pedestrian only but that’s not possible. We need an east west thoroughfare that is as pedestrian as possible like the St. Catherine sections are in Montreal
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I feel like this concern is overstated. From previous memory, there is less than 5 garage entrances through the central part of King, which can be comfortably accommodated through a short one-way single lane section of street to allow access to the garage right-in/right-out. The city won't do it, but King could be Transit-only from Spadina to Sherbourne with deliveries allowed via dedicated bays during certain times, and then in a dedicated ROW west to Ronce and east to the Don. That, plus some traffic signal adjustments, could make the King streetcar reliable and a reasonable speed through downtown.
 
The 502 DOWNTOWNER and 503 KINGSTON ROAD TRIPPER streetcars likely would be cut back. They used to and currently supply supplementary service to the 501 QUEEN streetcar. In fact, over the years and decades the routing has been altered. Sometimes using King Street, but most of the time on Queen Street.

For a history, see https://transittoronto.ca/streetcar/4102.shtml

Check out this video history on the Kingston Road & Downtowner streetcar....
1756234873532.png
Where will the 502 and 503 be cut back to? There seems to be no plan for a street loop or off-street loop around Riverside/Leslieville Station. Will one of the routes turn south at Broadview Avenue to serve the Don Port Lands? Or will they continue on their current routing? Or will they build a streetcar loop at Jimmie Simpson Park.
 
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