[Tuscani01]

The elevated guideway has been completed per this article:

Elevated guideway completed on Hazel McCallion LRT - Ontario Construction News

Ontario Construction News staff writer Construction on the Hazel McCallion LRT line in Mississauga has reached a significant milestone with the completion of an elevated guideway over Highway 403 near Square One. The elevated section will link the future City Centre stop at Rathburn Road to the...

www.ontarioconstructionnews.com

While the headline makes that claim, the article doesn't seem to agree:

With all the key parts now in place, construction teams are shifting focus to building the bridge deck –the flat surface that will eventually hold the LRT tracks.

 

[stevedean]

I really don't think that additional stops would be beneficial to this project.

It comes down to whether we want this line to operate similar to the Toronto streetcar lines that have stops very closely spaced (even on separated lines like St. Clair or Spadina), or whether we want it to operate more like a true LRT line with stops further apart - that allows the trains to reach higher speeds, and also improves speed by minimizing the time it takes to make a full stop at each station.

 

[sixrings]

Actually part of me is in drums camp. I mean this thing is just to shuttle us back and forth to GO stations. Not very exciting. But at least is should be useable. If this was actually getting us into Toronto then I think I’d prefer less stops. But it would be annoying to take the go. Transfer. And then still have to walk a considerable amount because it doesn’t have enough stops. That would be super frustrating.

In general I think the Hurontario line was important to make Mississauga it’s own place so perhaps shorter stops will help development and density and walk ability.

A GO branch or subway is the actual only fix to getting MCC residents to Toronto by transit in any decent fashion. The Dundas BRT is pretty crazy. We’re going to have to get to Dundas. Transfer. Then transfer at Kipling. Then transfer at at George. That’s a nightmare commute.

 

[drum118]

The elevated guideway has been completed per this article:

Elevated guideway completed on Hazel McCallion LRT - Ontario Construction News

Ontario Construction News staff writer Construction on the Hazel McCallion LRT line in Mississauga has reached a significant milestone with the completion of an elevated guideway over Highway 403 near Square One. The elevated section will link the future City Centre stop at Rathburn Road to the...

www.ontarioconstructionnews.com

I can say it is not completed as it is missing railing/fencing, tracks, OS, 2 of the 3 ramps are not built, but most of all, the WYE area not built. Then there is the bridge over the 403 that saw the rest of the formwork framing place on it this past weekend with the 403 been reduced to one or two lanes. The deck maybe poured, but more to it than that.

They are currenting installing the sewer system for the WYE area.

The north side is seeing another retraining wall north of the north pier and no idea what will go in where the excavation is taking place. They even have police on site.

Feb 10
More shots up on my site

 

[drum118]

Actually part of me is in drums camp. I mean this thing is just to shuttle us back and forth to GO stations. Not very exciting. But at least is should be useable. If this was actually getting us into Toronto then I think I’d prefer less stops. But it would be annoying to take the go. Transfer. And then still have to walk a considerable amount because it doesn’t have enough stops. That would be super frustrating.

In general I think the Hurontario line was important to make Mississauga it’s own place so perhaps shorter stops will help development and density and walk ability.

A GO branch or subway is the actual only fix to getting MCC residents to Toronto by transit in any decent fashion. The Dundas BRT is pretty crazy. We’re going to have to get to Dundas. Transfer. Then transfer at Kipling. Then transfer at at George. That’s a nightmare commute.

Again, you think all people want to go to downtown Toronto and that is fault thinking just like for Mississauga. People are forced to go downtown as it maybe the only way to get them to where they want to go in the first place.

People live, work, shop or do other things on Dundas, Hurontario, parts of Line 2 and so on and that is the only way to get them there in the first place.

Then there is the option of using the Transitway and transfer to TTC at Renforth to use Eglinton to get to Yonge St which is about 90 minutes by bus from CCTT at this time and will be faster when Phase 1 Crosstown Line opens this fall. It will be even faster when Phase 2 opens in 2031.

The Dundas BRT service a different market than the GO market, considering there is no daytime service on the Milton Line which is well down the road, let alone weekends.

The goal is to get people to use transit and that start with meeting people needs, time of day for travelling to get to/from where they want to go/from in the first place. The longer the walking distance is, the more the people who have access to a car will use the car than use transit. Those who use transit want good quality of service as well being reliable. Speed is not at the top of most people list when it comes to transit, but being able to get to/from where they want to go and not doing long walks to get to a transit stop. ML has set along with various systems these days of 400-500 meters between stops depending on density and the ridership for a stop to the point some stops can be further apart, but not under those numbers.

Ask TTC how hard it is to get stops removed today that should be removed in the first place?? TTC has been told by ward councilors that some of those stops can be removed, but not all of them based on the backlash of a few riders even though TTC has the numbers to prove the stop should be removed. Same applies in Mississauga.

What may work over in Europe may not work here as Europe is more open for stops being further apart and walking to them is a way of life. Also, the streets have more density along it with 6-8 story buildings while we have 2-4 story building with a few tall towers if there are any in the first place. Hurontario is mostly 2 stories with a few blocks of towers and riders coming in from side streets that are 2 stories.

 

[stevedean]

Speed is not at the top of most people list when it comes to transit, but being able to get to/from where they want to go and not doing long walks to get to a transit stop. ML has set along with various systems these days of 400-500 feet between stops depending on density and the ridership for a stop to the point some stops can be further apart, but not under those numbers.

Ask TTC how hard it is to get stops removed today that should be removed in the first place?? TTC has been told by ward councilors that some of those stops can be removed, but not all of them based on the backlash of a few riders even though TTC has the numbers to prove the stop should be removed. Same applies in Mississauga.

Going to have to disagree with you on the idea that speed isn't at the top of people's lists. Lots of people refuse to take the downtown Toronto streetcars because it's literally faster to walk most of the time. If the service isn't fast enough, then some people won't take transit at all.

For your last point above, why would we listen to a few complainers and ruin the entire transit line so a few people can save 150 feet of walking...?

It sounds like what you're looking for is basically better bus service and not a true LRT line.

 

[mikey7767]

Again, you think all people want to go to downtown Toronto and that is fault thinking just like for Mississauga. People are forced to go downtown as it maybe the only way to get them to where they want to go in the first place.

People live, work, shop or do other things on Dundas, Hurontario, parts of Line 2 and so on and that is the only way to get them there in the first place.

Then there is the option of using the Transitway and transfer to TTC at Renforth to use Eglinton to get to Yonge St which is about 90 minutes by bus from CCTT at this time and will be faster when Phase 1 Crosstown Line opens this fall. It will be even faster when Phase 2 opens in 2031.

The Dundas BRT service a different market than the GO market, considering there is no daytime service on the Milton Line which is well down the road, let alone weekends.

The goal is to get people to use transit and that start with meeting people needs, time of day for travelling to get to/from where they want to go/from in the first place. the longer the walking distance is, the more the people who have access to a car will use the car than use transit. Those who use transit want good quality of service as well being reliable. Speed is not at the top of most people list when it comes to transit, but being able to get to/from where they want to go and not doing long walks to get to a transit stop. ML has set along with various systems these days of 400-500 feet between stops depending on density and the ridership for a stop to the point some stops can be further apart, but not under those numbers.

Ask TTC how hard it is to get stops removed today that should be removed in the first place?? TTC has been told by ward councilors that some of those stops can be removed, but not all of them based on the backlash of a few riders even though TTC has the numbers to prove the stop should be removed. Same applies in Mississauga.

What may work over in Europe may not work here as Europe is more open for stops being further apart and walking to them is a way of life. Also, the streets have more density along it with 6-8 story buildings wile be have 2-4 story building with a few tall towers if there are any in the first place. Hurontario is mostly 2 stories with a few blocks of towers and riders coming in from side streets that are 2 stories.

I disagree with the part that speed isn't a top priority on people's list. When transit is slow, people tend to drive as an alternative.

Also, people have become used to very close stop distances, but walking a few hundred metres is not a big deal, and what works in Europe can absolutely work here. Walking here is a pretty big way of life (though not as much as it is in Europe), and it can be more of a way of life here if we build more efficiently. It is faster to walk an extra couple hundred metres than it is to sit in a vehicle that spends time stopping every few hundred metres. Stopping that frequently does matter and makes a huge negative difference on commute times, reliability, and people's willingness to take transit. An example is the 510 Spadina streetcar. It stops wayy too frequently. Literally half the stops could be eliminated and people still would not have to walk much to their destination.

You mentioned that walking to them is a way of life. It can be here too, and we are only talking about an extra few hundred metres, which is an extra 5-7 minutes. If people are unwilling to do that, then I would say they are the ones who are being unreasonable about a relatively short distance. Very short stop distances has benefits as you mentioned, but the drawbacks are a lot bigger.

 

[mikey7767]

For your last point above, why would we listen to a few complainers and ruin the entire transit line so a few people can save 150 feet of walking...?

That's exactly how I feel as well.

 

[sixrings]

I disagree with the part that speed isn't a top priority on people's list. When transit is slow, people tend to drive as an alternative.

Also, people have become used to very close stop distances, but walking a few hundred metres is not a big deal, and what works in Europe can absolutely work here. Walking here is a pretty big way of life (though not as much as it is in Europe), and it can be more of a way of life here if we build more efficiently. It is faster to walk an extra couple hundred metres than it is to sit in a vehicle that spends time stopping every few hundred metres. Stopping that frequently does matter and makes a huge negative difference on commute times, reliability, and people's willingness to take transit. An example is the 510 Spadina streetcar. It stops wayy too frequently. Literally half the stops could be eliminated and people still would not have to walk much to their destination.

You mentioned that walking to them is a way of life. It can be here too, and we are only talking about an extra few hundred metres, which is an extra 5-7 minutes. If people are unwilling to do that, then I would say they are the ones who are being unreasonable about a relatively short distance. Very short stop distances has benefits as you mentioned, but the drawbacks are a lot bigger.

The reason spadina has so many stops though is because there’s so many lights on that street. Hurontario has considerably less lights. I do think speed is important though to a lot of people and because transit is often so slow it’s not even an option for some people.

I guess part of this is are we trying to attract potential new riders or are we trying to service the current riders.

My biggest frustration when I used to take finch was that there was a stop on both sides of don mills. And that meant that riders inevitably would use both stops slowing down the system versus one stop and simply walking. It was infuriating.

Drum though has some inconsistencies in his talking about the route though. He wants more stops to allow people in buildings a shorter walk to the transit. Shorter walk is what’s important here and speed less an issue. Yet he is also four square against the MCC loop which services a lot of buildings because it adds stop and time to riders that they will eventually just drive. So sometimes speed is important. And sometimes accessibility is important. Maybe he can explain the reasoning but it’s hard not to think he is losing his own stop while at the same time being asked to take a longer route to serve other people. To be fair that would be frustrating too. But it can still be inconsistent.

 

[mikey7767]

The reason spadina has so many stops though is because there’s so many lights on that street. Hurontario has considerably less lights. I do think speed is important though to a lot of people and because transit is often so slow it’s not even an option for some people.

I guess part of this is are we trying to attract potential new riders or are we trying to service the current riders.

My biggest frustration when I used to take finch was that there was a stop on both sides of don mills. And that meant that riders inevitably would use both stops slowing down the system versus one stop and simply walking. It was infuriating.

There are a lot of lights, but most of the stops are far side stops after the streetcar crosses the lights, so it is stopping twice. Some stops that I see as unnecessary are Sussex, Willcocks, and other stops like that. There are some lights that do not have stops in between College and Dundas and one that does. And the Spadina streetcar is extremely slow, and it does not lead anybody to want to take transit as it is not an attractive option. Similarly, if we want to make LRTs attractive, I believe we should make them faster and more reliable with reasonable stop distances. I'm not saying 2 km stop distances, but at least 500 metres to 1km apart. And this will contribute to adding new riders, because the LRT will become a faster and better way to commute.

What I'm saying is that the best way to attract new riders is by making lines faster and more reliable, and better than driving. When transit is slow, it does the opposite. And I truly believe that walking an extra few hundred metres is not gonna take away that many new riders, because we are talking an extra 200-400 metres extra which can be done in a few minutes, not a kilometre or more. If people are willing to slow down a whole transit line to avoid a few extra minutes of walking, I think that is a larger societal problem.

 

[sixrings]

To be fair to drum even with a few extra stops the line would still average that 500-1000m spacing you’re speaking of.

There are a lot of lights, but most of the stops are far side stops after the streetcar crosses the lights, so it is stopping twice. Some stops that I see as unnecessary are Sussex, Willcocks, and other stops like that. There are some lights that do not have stops in between College and Dundas and one that does. And the Spadina streetcar is extremely slow, and it does not lead anybody to want to take transit as it is not an attractive option. Similarly, if we want to make LRTs attractive, I believe we should make them faster and more reliable with reasonable stop distances. I'm not saying 2 km stop distances, but at least 500 metres to 1km apart. And this will contribute to adding new riders, because the LRT will become a faster and better way to commute.

What I'm saying is that the best way to attract new riders is by making lines faster and more reliable, and better than driving. When transit is slow, it does the opposite. And I truly believe that walking an extra few hundred metres is not gonna take away that many new riders, because we are talking an extra 200-400 metres extra which can be done in a few minutes, not a kilometre or more. If people are willing to slow down a whole transit line to avoid a few extra minutes of walking, I think that is a larger societal problem.

 

[drum118]

First of all, I need to correct myself in stop spacing as I was using feet when it should have been meters. I am repost the current and future spacing I did last year on debating spacing. As noted plan future station and proposed station. You will noticed some spacing for LRT is too far apart

Stop spacing should be 350m-1km apart in a straight line based on existing conditions as well future development between stops along what I have noted.

Lets look at the current stop spacing as well future stop spaces along with walking distance from various locations on Hurontario and need to add more distance to the side streets.

Current stops
(S) Southbound
Side Street is 1-3 bocks on either side for mostly industrial area
All figures are rounded and close as possible to the stop locations
Should be remove now

Lakeshore to Park St is 230m with no stop at Lakeshore
Park St to Englewood is about 339m plus side street
Englewood to Mineola is about 419m as Englewood keeps moving due to LRT and no final place yet.
Mineola to Pinewood is 419m
Pinewood to Pinetree/South Service Rd is 363m plus side streets
Pinetree/South Service Rd to North Service Rd is 515m
North Service Rd to Sherobee is 349m with another 476m plus for the side streets off it
Sherobee to the Queensway is 212m
The Queensway to Paisley is 316m plus another 382m+
Paisley to Floridale that did not exist until about 10 years go is 215m should be removed now
Floridale (S) to King is 212m with Floradale Rd should be removed now
Paisley to King would be 458m
King to Dundas is 227m
Dundas to Hillcrest 425m Northbound stop was removed some years ago for safety for TLK
Hillcrest to TLK is 189m for southbound
Hillcrest to John St is 141m with another 358m to the east
John St mid point to Fairview used to be 374m plus another 350m+
John St to Fairview is 600m
Fairview to Central Pkwy is 250m plus 210/272m to Mississauga Valley Plus
CP to Elm is 258 Plus 260m to Mississauga Valley Plus
Elm to Matthew Gates is 213m
Matthew Gates to Burnhamthorpe is 184m
Route 103 from Burnhamthorpe to Robert Speck is 301 plus walking to the towers
Route 2 from Burnhamthorpe to City Centre is 647m
Kingsbridge to Eglinton is 445/(S)321m
Eglinton to Nahani is 322/(S)481m
Nahani to Trailwood mid point to is 210m plus side streets
Nahani to Trailwood is 444m plus side street
Trailwood to Bristol is 368m,
Bristol to Barondale is 381m plus side street
Barondale to Matheson is 372m plus side street
Matheson to Waltline is 253m plus side street
Waltline to Aldriidge is 297m plus side street
Aldriidge to Brunel is 296m plus side street
Brunel to Britannia is 223m plus side street
Britannia to World Dr is 1km plus side street
World Dr to Prologis is 277km plus side street
Prologis to Courtneypark is 374m plus side street
Courtneypark to Ambassador is 272m plus side street
Ambassador to Superior is 303m plus side street
Superior to Admiral is 360m plus side street
Admiral to Derry Rd is 389m plus side street
Derry to Kingsway is 196m route 2
Kingsway to Topflight is 455m route 2
Topflight to Ray Lawson is 1.3k with not service
Derry to Ray Lawson is 2km by route 103 and 502
Ray Lawson to Country Court is 465m plus side street
Country Court to Steeles south is 643km with no service.


LRT Stations
Steeles South to Ray Lawson is 1.1km plus walk to Gateway
(Steeles North to Ray Lawson) is 1.2km
Ray Lawson to Derry is 1.95km
Derry to Courtneypark is 1.43 km
(Derry to future Superior station) is 819m
(future Superior station to Courtneypark) is 615m
Courtneypark to Britannia is 1.7km
Britannia to Matheson is 1km
Matheson to Bristol is 775m
Bristol to Eglinton is 1.2km
Eglinton to Square One is 1.5km plus/minus
Eglinton to Robert Speck is 1.7km for bypass service
(Eglinton to Kingsbridge 450m with in standards)
(Kingsbridge to Robert Speck 1.25Km)
Robert Speck to Burnhamthorpe is 444m
Burnhamthorpe to CP is 638m
CP to John St is 882m
John St to Dundas is 552m on the north side
Dundas to the Queensway is 1km
Queensway to the North Service Rd is 586m
North Service Rd to Mineola is 1.33km
(South Service Rd to Mineola) is 844m
Mineola to PC is 714m

 

[mikey7767]

First of all, I need to correct myself in stop spacing as I was using feet when it should have been meters. I am repost the current and future spacing I did last year on debating spacing. As noted plan future station and proposed station. You will noticed some spacing for LRT is too far apart

Stop spacing should be 350m-1km apart in a straight line based on existing conditions as well future development between stops along what I have noted.

Lets look at the current stop spacing as well future stop spaces along with walking distance from various locations on Hurontario and need to add more distance to the side streets.

Current stops
(S) Southbound
Side Street is 1-3 bocks on either side for mostly industrial area
All figures are rounded and close as possible to the stop locations
Should be remove now

Lakeshore to Park St is 230m with no stop at Lakeshore
Park St to Englewood is about 339m plus side street
Englewood to Mineola is about 419m as Englewood keeps moving due to LRT and no final place yet.
Mineola to Pinewood is 419m
Pinewood to Pinetree/South Service Rd is 363m plus side streets
Pinetree/South Service Rd to North Service Rd is 515m
North Service Rd to Sherobee is 349m with another 476m plus for the side streets off it
Sherobee to the Queensway is 212m
The Queensway to Paisley is 316m plus another 382m+
Paisley to Floridale that did not exist until about 10 years go is 215m should be removed now
Floridale (S) to King is 212m with Floradale Rd should be removed now
Paisley to King would be 458m
King to Dundas is 227m
Dundas to Hillcrest 425m Northbound stop was removed some years ago for safety for TLK
Hillcrest to TLK is 189m for southbound
Hillcrest to John St is 141m with another 358m to the east
John St mid point to Fairview used to be 374m plus another 350m+
John St to Fairview is 600m
Fairview to Central Pkwy is 250m plus 210/272m to Mississauga Valley Plus
CP to Elm is 258 Plus 260m to Mississauga Valley Plus
Elm to Matthew Gates is 213m
Matthew Gates to Burnhamthorpe is 184m
Route 103 from Burnhamthorpe to Robert Speck is 301 plus walking to the towers
Route 2 from Burnhamthorpe to City Centre is 647m
Kingsbridge to Eglinton is 445/(S)321m
Eglinton to Nahani is 322/(S)481m
Nahani to Trailwood mid point to is 210m plus side streets
Nahani to Trailwood is 444m plus side street
Trailwood to Bristol is 368m,
Bristol to Barondale is 381m plus side street
Barondale to Matheson is 372m plus side street
Matheson to Waltline is 253m plus side street
Waltline to Aldriidge is 297m plus side street
Aldriidge to Brunel is 296m plus side street
Brunel to Britannia is 223m plus side street
Britannia to World Dr is 1km plus side street
World Dr to Prologis is 277km plus side street
Prologis to Courtneypark is 374m plus side street
Courtneypark to Ambassador is 272m plus side street
Ambassador to Superior is 303m plus side street
Superior to Admiral is 360m plus side street
Admiral to Derry Rd is 389m plus side street
Derry to Kingsway is 196m route 2
Kingsway to Topflight is 455m route 2
Topflight to Ray Lawson is 1.3k with not service
Derry to Ray Lawson is 2km by route 103 and 502
Ray Lawson to Country Court is 465m plus side street
Country Court to Steeles south is 643km with no service.


LRT Stations
Steeles South to Ray Lawson is 1.1km plus walk to Gateway
(Steeles North to Ray Lawson) is 1.2km
Ray Lawson to Derry is 1.95km
Derry to Courtneypark is 1.43 km
(Derry to future Superior station) is 819m
(future Superior station to Courtneypark) is 615m
Courtneypark to Britannia is 1.7km
Britannia to Matheson is 1km
Matheson to Bristol is 775m
Bristol to Eglinton is 1.2km
Eglinton to Square One is 1.5km plus/minus
Eglinton to Robert Speck is 1.7km for bypass service
(Eglinton to Kingsbridge 450m with in standards)
(Kingsbridge to Robert Speck 1.25Km)
Robert Speck to Burnhamthorpe is 444m
Burnhamthorpe to CP is 638m
CP to John St is 882m
John St to Dundas is 552m on the north side
Dundas to the Queensway is 1km
Queensway to the North Service Rd is 586m
North Service Rd to Mineola is 1.33km
(South Service Rd to Mineola) is 844m
Mineola to PC is 714m

Yeah, mentioning 400 ft (approximately 170 metres) stop distances shocked me, as that is insane even for a bus, let alone an LRT.

I read through each stop distance. There isn't even one that I think is too far apart from the other, including North Service Rd to Mineola and Ray Lawson to Derry. There will be a bus route that runs parallel to this line. The bus route will have smaller stop distances. As a result, I see no reason to add more stops.

 

[sixrings]

Yeah, mentioning 400 ft (approximately 170 metres) stop distances shocked me, as that is insane even for a bus, let alone an LRT.

I read through each stop distance. There isn't even one that I think is too far apart from the other, including North Service Rd to Mineola and Ray Lawson to Derry. There will be a bus route that runs parallel to this line. The bus route will have smaller stop distances. As a result, I see no reason to add more stops.

Parallel bus routes isn’t exactly the best though. The service on those routes such as shepherd are notoriously bad. And it’s a waste of finite finances.

 

[drum118]

Yeah, mentioning 400 ft (approximately 170 metres) stop distances shocked me, as that is insane even for a bus, let alone an LRT.

I read through each stop distance. There isn't even one that I think is too far apart from the other, including North Service Rd to Mineola and Ray Lawson to Derry. There will be a bus route that runs parallel to this line. The bus route will have smaller stop distances. As a result, I see no reason to add more stops.

Since I have walked the corridor for the LRT from end to end a fair number of times and not all at the same time, I know the corridor well. I have walked some areas a lot more than others as well talked to people in those areas about the coming of the LRT, so it have a understanding of the current riders concerns. I believe one must drive, use transit and walk where possible of a route to understand the need for the corridor as well shoot it. One needs to do observations of various areas to see what ridership is like today and what it maybe down the road based on a number of things.

You think everyone lives on Hurontario or a major route and the answer is no. For those who live on those routes, it not much of a walk, but a different story for those who have to walking 1-3 blocks off the route. Depending on those side streets, a rider may have to do a double back once they hit that street along with the other block or 2 that the total distance is 2-3 or more than the distance between stops. As for Derry to Ray Lawson what is there now? Nothing, but could be something around Topflight in the future that has huge amount of empty land and be used for industrial or mid rise commercial since it is in the flight path of the airport. North Service Rd to Mineola is low density with many homes converted to office space with ridership coming in off the side street

Like or not, there will be other stations to be added to the line over time, as they are already plan for and will be built once the need for it is met and I have noted one of them. It has poured concrete between the rails like all the current platforms that have seen concrete to anchor the tracks in place. Not sure why they encased the rails as most stations I have seen elsewhere only see exposed rail. Crosstown has exposed rail for all the stations on the line including the surface ones. Finch is all concrete for the line until Hwy 27. No idea about the Keele station since it not open.

Parallel bus routes isn’t exactly the best though. The service on those routes such as shepherd are notoriously bad. And it’s a waste of finite finances.

What is the waking distance between Yonge and Bayview with no station between them? There was to been a station between the 2 stations, but was removed from the plan due to low ridership numbers at the time. There are now a fair number of developments of towers on the books to be built in that section with more to come at a future date at would justify a future station where one was originally plan for in the first place, It would have to be built like the North York Station with the platforms on the side.

You may think its a waste, but not to the people that are forced to take the bus, especially the accessibility community and people with young children. The Sheppard bus and the Yonge 97 bus run every 30 minutes. As a note, I have walked those blocks for the 97 a few times not all at the same time and not a great walk on winter days or very hot days. I have walked in the shoes of riders to understand their needs for stops and buses while keeping in mind stop spacing is important for various areas.