cplchanb
Senior Member
Can somebody explain why it would take 2 years to install less than 50km of track? Thats an avg of under 70m/day. Seems slow given that they have specialized machinery and no ties to worry about in the underground section
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smallspy
Senior Member
The work on the underground stations has by-and-large been progressing from west to east. So you have stations such as Keelesdale and Fairbank where they have completed several of the massive pours required for the station boxes and roofs, and others such as Mt Pleasant where they have barely stated excavating.
And while progress has been hard to track via things such as their videos or their various social media feeds, if you watch their construction notices you'll find that it seems as if every week or two there is another planned large pour that will require temporary lane closures. It seems that other than passing by the sites weekly or so, that may be the easiest way to keep tabs on the project - after all, the notices need to be posted in real-time, not when it is convenient to do so to aggregate the most "likes".
As for Cedarvale and Eglinton-Yonge, it looks like like after much engineering work and discussion, they only found an amenable solution to proceeding with the work late last summer or early fall. http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...022_BoardMtg_Eglinton_LRT_Construction_EN.pdf. Since then, excavation around the station box has been proceeding reasonably quickly.
Because they need to dig out the stations still - or even just finish the tunnel in a bunch of places. There's no point in laying track if it is just going to be torn up again when they excavate the station box.
Dan
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
They could also end up using the laid tracks to deliver or remove materials on flatbed cars needed to "finish" the stations, as they progress west to east. However, without electrical overhead power on, they have to limit the use of diesel engines underground (except for pest control).
TransitBart
Senior Member
It is 2019. There are two years of construction left according to the experience in this room and Metrolinx too.
The ION system in Waterloo has been running tests for a year to ensure vehicles clear posts, gates go down and signals work. A year in and no date for revenue service.
What does the TTC know that Waterloo region does not because I see no time for testing here.
Even the Spadina extension ran non-revenue service - if I recall for 3 months - September to December before revenue service.
Let’s check this.
Rocket train - known vehicle. Flexity - new vehicle.
Controlled underground ROW with no competing traffic - no mixed opaeration vs underground and above ground Agni h the TTC has no experience with.
I would love to see this on time, but someone says there is barely a hole in the ground at Mount Pleasant let alone a station. Add in the time to test and I don’t understand how this can be done.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
The Flexity Freedom would not be a "new" by today nor by opening day, since Waterloo ION would have been using 14 of them.
The TTC is already using ATO on the Line 1 extension since December, 2017. As for mixed operation, what do you call the section between Queens Quay Station and Union Station, if not "underground"; and the part west of Queens Quay Station, if not "above ground"?
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
The Union streetcar tunnel is basically a tunnel. Back on topic, I didn't know Eglinton would have ATO, how come I didn't find out till now ?
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
The freedom is new in a sense that there are different components that the TTC needs to familiarize themselves with. They're very similar to the outlooks, but all subtle differences must be accounted for.
The difference with the crosstown and the Queens Quay tunnel is the fact that there is a signaling system on the crosstown while there are none on the 509/510. There's also the need to test the operation of an entirely new line and new signal priority equipment at intersections. There is a lot more to do.
hw621
Senior Member
Maybe by "open in 2021" they actually mean open for testing?
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
@W. K. Lis does not realize that the 509/510 have no signalling system, so that does not connect in anyway with the Crosstown
nfitz
Superstar
I think one would have to deliberately choose to misinterpret what he said about 509/510 running both underground and overground to think that it meant that Bay is connected to Line 5!
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smallspy
Senior Member
Well, for one it's an apples-and-oranges comparison.
The signalling system for the Crosstown will be a greenfield installation, meaning that there was nothing there before it. It makes the installation and testing process much easier, as you aren't going around chasing gremlins which may be caused by older systems still in place and active.
The equipment for ION has been installed on an active rail line, meaning that they've needed a lot of testing to ensure that it is working properly regardless of the vehicle that were running on the line.
And then there's the fact that the Region of Waterloo postponed the awarding of the tender for the on-board equipment installation until last year, and the installation has not gone nearly as smoothly as envisioned. The Crosstown signalling system contract has already long been awarded, and even if the installation and testing takes longer than they figured, they've still got lots of time at this point to figure things out. (Obviously, this will change as we get closer to opening, and especially if portions of the line aren't completed by their scheduled timeline.)
1 board period - 6 weeks. That is Standard Operating Procedure for the TTC and subway openings. There was lots and lots of testing prior to that, however.
The Toronto Rockets were not a known vehicle when it was first delivered, and required a year of interface testing before it was cleared for revenue service. And if you're referring to the ATC/ATO signalling system on the TYSSE, there was months of signalling systems testing and integration that was done with both the vehicles and the extension independant of each other before that final board period.
Yes, the Flexity Freedoms are a new vehicle, which is why the first ones are being delivered now - almost(-ish?) three years prior to the opening of the line.
Except that the TTC has experience with both of those modes in isolation of each other. And they also have experience now with ATO-to-manual control migration points as well, and have for a very long time.
I too am concerned about the timeline of the project, but seeing as how it is still almost three years away from seeing any revenue passengers, I don't think that it's quite yet time to start sweating about it. If we're still having this same discussion in a year's time, well, then its a different story.
Dan
lead82
Senior Member
Based on what I'm seeing at my local station - Forest Hill, opening in 2021 isnojnthe optimistkc side. The like will most like open in 2022. There are at least three more years of heavy construction remaining. That means that most construction will be wrapped up in 2021, but the TTC will surely need time to test the system and make it operational. That will likely bleed into 2022. I suspect the line will open either late spring or early fall for 2022.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
There are no off-street bus palaces at Forest Hill Station. There will be on-street connections with the TTC buses. A closure of Bathurst Street one block north of Eglinton Avenue West is still being proposed to accelerate construction of Forest Hill Station.
From link.
lead82
Senior Member
Mark my words - the acceleration will not happen. The wealthy home owners in this area are large to let Bathurst traffic onto their calm streets for 6 months. True there is no bus terminal here (none needed), the construction looks to be behind schedule. They are just starting to put the concrete walls of the station box. Without the acceleration, this will take over a year to do in a piecemeal fashion.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Why should anyone be happy with traffic on a local street?
The are saving the City millions of dollars for some inconvenience to themselves. At least there could be some type of property tax waiver that eases the discomfort.